UPVC Door locking

[Adrian Brentnall]

HI All

We've been in this house now since 2006 (new build) and two of the most-used UPVC doors are playing up, when trying to lock them..

(I do understand the 'JFGI' thing - but Google returns so many hits that there's an excess of conflicting information).

Problem is - close the door, lift the handle to engage the locks, turn the key and it won't turn far enough round to actually lock the door.

If the handle and lock are operated without the door closed into the frame - never a problem.

Only way to get the doors to lock, is to repeatedly open/close/operate handle - and, eventually, the key will turn.

We did have a specialist around a year or so back - he dismantled the door handle, removed and discarded a gear that was broken, but was (apparently) unnecessary. Emptied half a can of WD40 into the mechanism and declared it fixed. It wasn't..

Probably going to be a DIY solution, as we're out in the wilds or rural Ireland, and we've already had a visit from the man who everybody reckons to be the expert!

So, clever folks, where to start, please? - or a link to a useful online 'how to'...?

Thanks Adrian

[Tim+]

It?s sounds like wear or slackness in the locking mechanism and I think you?ll have to bite the bullet and remove it all for examination. If you?re lucky, it might be something bent that can be straightened but I suspect you?ll just find worn linkages and it?ll probably be easier to replace the whole mechanism than to attempt a repair.

No harm looking though and you never know, it might simply be a loose screw or bolt in the connecting linkages.

Tim

[Jack Harry Teesdale]

If it locks OK when the door is open, there could be an obstruction in the aperture where the lock goes into the frame.

Check for debris or any movement there. If you haven't already done it measure the depth of the lock aperture and compare it to the lock head depth.

[Andy Burns]

sounds like the lock is ok if it works wit the door open.

Find out what helps the lock to close when the door is closed, try things like

# lift the handle higher or more firmly # shift the door up/down/left/right in the frame # push the door tighter againdst the seals # put coloured chalk on parts of the door to see if/where it rubs

once you find what adjustment is required, see what make/model of hardware (hinges, locking bar, gearbox) are on your door and how to make adjustments to it.

[Dave Plowman (News]

Have you tried pressing down (or up) the handle while turning the key?

[newshound]

+1, that's just what I would have said!

[Jeff Layman]

That's what I would do as it's straightforward. Another possibility is to remove one frame lock at a time, and see if the door then locks. If it does, that lock's position needs adjustment.

[Tricky Dicky]

It will be the catch plate our doors do the same from time to time in fact I was adjusting one myself today. If you look at the catch plate in the frame if it is anything like ours there will be an adjustable plate usually secured by two eccentric screws turning these will slide plate over either left or right as required. Once the latch slides fully in when you pull the handle up the the key will turn to lock it.

Richard

[Jethro_uk]

Which tells you pretty much all you need to know. It's the interaction between the active locking mechanism in the door, and the static locking points on the frame that are your problem.

If we assume that the door isn't warped or damaged, then look very carefully at the adjustments of the metal fastening points on the frame. Pound to a penny they are either just loose enough to cause problems, or slightly misaligned causing the door mechanism to not quite get as far as the locking point.

(Generally I've found "specialists" (a) aren't, and (b) rarely do a job worth paying for. Case in hand being the "gas fitter" who insisted that Corgi were still a thing in 2013. I fitted the oxypilot myself and still haven't blown anyone up.)

Well my suggestions should be zero sum - if they're no use you've only lost time. The only "gotcha" may be specialist screw bits for the adjustment.

[Tricky Dicky]

Here is a link to what needs adjusting, it is the two disk shapes with the T15 driver slots. Someone tried to do the same by filing at the adjusting plate it was not me but you should get the idea.

Richard

[Tricky Dicky]

Silly me forgot the link

[Jeff Layman]

I think you'll find that each manufacturer has their own way of adjusting the catch position. Mine is completely different from yours.

I've also wondered how the door hinges can be adjusted so the door moves up or down a fraction. There appears to be a hex socket on mine which moves the hinge "pivot" but although I've turned it, I couldn't see any difference in the door position.

[Andy Burns]

On that one, it looks like if you slackened off the cross-head screws, then the torx screws act as eccentric cams and would allow angling the top and bottom parts of the striking plate up/down/in/out.

As you suggest they vary, mine has Trojan flag hinges which are very versatile, you have to prise open a cover, then slack-off some "normal" cross-head screws, then the hex sockets will move the door side to side, while the sme hex sockets (over the course of several turns) will also move the door in/out compressing the seal more or less.

[PeterC]

There's a screw in my mechs. that can work loose and start to cause that sort of problem. IIRC it's a grub screw and is visible only when the handle is in one position and then needs a 'driver that's narrower than the screw. These things seem to be complex and not possible to dimantle non-destructively - once the rivets are out...

[Another John]

My 2p Adrian: the bolt at the bottom edge of the door (i.e. the part of the locking mechanism that you never see, unless you "lock" the door while it's open, and then look for it underneath) may be fouling something in the slot into which it's supposed to slide.

I never ever thought of that (for my door) until the other day when I was cleaning the muck off the bottom edge, and discovered that (in my case) the bolt was just proud of the door edge, although the door was unlocked .... which goes a long way to explaining why my own door sometimes sticks when we open it.

Something may have fallen into that slot.

I also agree with what Dave P said: "Have you tried pressing down (or up) the handle while turning the key?" That is necessary for us, occasionally, too.

To summarise: don't embark on sophisticated attempts until after you've tried the simplest :-)

Good luck!

John

[Smolley]

Sometimes cold weather can stop the bolt entering, particularly if the clearance is fine.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

I have one like that here. I have had to remove the lowest engagement metal bit that the sliding lock goes into as it seems to reach the end of travel before the door is lockable. This is a temp fix I did months ago now. However it does mean the bottom of the door might be less secure. I noticed the other day that in hot weather the back door is going the same way as well. It seems things creep over time but I guess it might be the door has warped or the hinges worn, but its just enough to cause one of the locks to foul. Bah humbug. Brian

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

Mine has a lot of slack in all the linkages and has done since day one. In my case this slackness seems to help the problem not make it worse. I suspect the original alignment was not perfect on all of the posts to start with. There do seem to be basically two slides each with two spigots, on with a flange and one without, to no doubt thwart the nasty criminal. No its lack of slack in my case! Brian

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

Many like mine are not projecting spigots, mine slide up and down and it seems to be the down set at the bottom that now hits the bottom of the cut out which is now removed. The fix would be to fit it abut 1 /16 inch lower but of course there is no adjustment or it might work loose and allow it to be opened by a burglar. Brian

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

That does not seem to exist on my door/frame it seems all set as is. It will lock if somebody artificially lifts the door as you are putting the handle up say using a spade on a brick, yet there seems no real play anywhere, so the alignment is just a fraction out, no doubt due to a dropping door or warping of the doors. Brian