unhappy Brexmass

[jim.gm4dhj]

Oh well Doris has sold us out.....

[Stephen Cole]

Was always going to happen, the EU held all the cards from day one and the UK was always going to have to bend over and take whatever they wanted. This is what fuckwits like Brian Reay G8OSN voted for; subjugation.

The French played their power move well this week when they closed the border to show Boris how badly they can f*ck us if he didn?t buck his ideas up. Instant chaos, gridlocked roads, panic buying, food shortages. Clearly, it worked. Good for them, we deserve this. Sunlit uplands.

Looking forward to Scottish independence and Irish reunification coming up soon.

[Fredxx]

Just wait for the rest of the UK to close the M6/M74 and apply a toll when entering from Scotland.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think the biggest laugh will be when Sturgeon realises that the market price for *imported* renewable energy is like 4p a unit, not the 16-20p Scottish windfarms get as part of the UK...

...she might choose to subsidise them herself, but what with?

[Cursitor Doom]

An awful lot of people on *both* sides of the border can't wait for Scotland to go it alone. ;->

[Fredxx]

If she wants a majority she ought to include the other in the UK too. As you say most here are fed up with her whining.

[pinnerite]

I think what shifted it was not French intransigence but the effect they had on Irish thinking. Their European freight goes via England.

Keep an eye on the veto. The EU bureaucracy whants rid of it so that their projects can move forward without any one of 26 states blocking them. Remember Brexit when it comes to pass. It will not be tomorrow but if the EU survives it will happen.

[Roger Hayter]

They got rid of the veto for some issues (qualified majority vpting) some years ago, but the sky didn't fall in. Indeed, some people seem to have failed to notice. But the ultimate veto of leaving the EU will always be there for every country.

[Cursitor Doom]

Nope. The aim is and always was ever closer union. Expect the veto AND Article 50 to be done away with going forward.

[Fred]

They cant just scrap Article 50 unilaterally and no way to stop any country leaving if they choose to do that.

[Cursitor Doom]

No chance. You wait and see. That project was never intended to have a reverse gear. They'd sooner have a pan-european civil war than face losing another member. Come to think of it, there's a prophecy in there somewhere...

[Fred]

Then why was Article 50 added later ?

And what do you claim that the EU would do if they do remove Article 50 and a country chooses to leave anyway ? The EU doesn't even have an army to use and there is nothing the EU can do if that country stops paying the EU.

That wouldn't happen if a country chooses to leave.

Nope.

[Cursitor Doom]

Well, the passage of time will be our judge on this one.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes. A very good point made in one of the places I frequent: The UK wanted economic benefit, but France and Germany wanted a political union and a superstate, from the get go. We advocated liberal global free trade, they advocated protectionism and parochial inward looking politics. We espoused democracy, they preferred appointed bureaucracy. Our laws says its ok if there is no law against it, and you are innocent till proven guilty, Their law said unless there is a regulation permitting it, it is illegal and you are guilty unless you can prove your innocence.

We never really belonged. We evolved democracy as the least painful way to move from rule by warlord/aristocrat towards rule by the middle classes. France had a revolution and then an emperor and Europe wide war. Russia had a revolution and global war. Germany ended up with a dictator, and global war. Spain had a revolution. Italy is still split between the communists and the Mafia.

Curiously it is the protestant parts like Holland who have along with Britain fared best. Perhaps Catholics are just more used to being told what to do.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No, what will happen is that a new treaty to replace whatever the last one was Maastricht? Lisbon? will be drafted, with lots of headline goodies, and it will be ratified by the existing states, but will curiously have no article 50 at all.

And if questioned the EU will loftily say that the only nation who ever wanted it has already used it, *and look at the trouble THAT caused*.

Meanwhile the work of destroying all national institutions and in fact any focus of potential resistance will be quietly attacked subverted and destroyed.

[The Natural Philosopher]

A Scotsman insisted on having it when IIRC Maastricht was drafted.

I think you have seen exactly what they can do, Close all the borders to that country and ground all planes flying to that country.

Luxembourg for example wouldn?t las t a week, neither in all probaility woulkd Belgium. Scandinavia has a better chance as do the ex Eastern bloc with only one border on one side to the EU.

I never thought they would do what they did when one country *did* decide to leave. As a profound Eurosceptic they exceeded my worst expectations by a factor of at least 5.

We were struggling to extricate ourselves and have political freedom, they are fighting for their very survival, and its a shame that Boris caved in, because he has allowed them to claim victory.

Because in large areas of domestic policy they still control us.

[fred]

I'm always amused by the 'they' rhetoric. When the UK was part of the EU it was a 'We' The old saying goes 'Would you rather be outside the tent pissing in or inside the tent pissing out' That turkey is about to come home to roost

[The Natural Philosopher]

If the EU is in the tent, I'd rather be outside pissing in. Especially when we were inside, they were pissing on us - they never looked outside the tent. They certainly never opened the door flap.

[Radio Man]

The Germans see Europe as their Empire to be conquered. They failed in WW1 and WW2. The EU is just another attempt. The French gave in WW2 and are part of the plan this time.

[Cursitor Doom]

The ERG eurosceptic faction's army of lawyers have disagreed with you on that score, NP. Cheer up. We won!