types of emulsion paint

Hi,
I went to Wickes to buy some cheap emulsion to dilute 50:50 to make a mist coat to seal some plaster. I was bewildered by the number of different types of emulsion they had.
There was trade emulsion and trade vinyl emulsion. Is the difference between these two that the vinyl version is wipeable but the non-vinyl is not? Or isn't it as simple as that?
There was also an "emulsion for plaster". I don't remember what the tin said now but I imagine you can paint direct onto plaster without priming it first? I wonder if you need more than one coat? I wasn't really looking to paint the wall white; I would have been happy with a wishy washy finish just to stop the dust brushing off but it could have been useful, I suppose.
What would you have bought?
I notice they said to dilute with 10% water,. I suppose that helps if you are a tradesman that you could get 11 tins out of 10 but I would be nervous about diluting one batch more than another and getting an inconsistent finish!
On a totally different point, may I ask what eggshell is? I assumed it was just a finish halfway between matt and satin but a recent post here suggested it was best for bathrooms and kitchens, so is it for some reason a more durable finish?
Where do bathroom and kitchen paints fit into the equation? Are they just vinyl emulsions?
TIA
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On 26/04/2012 15:37, Fred wrote:

IMO thinning water based paint is never a good idea. It "breaks" the emulsion so that some of the paint's properties are lost. Best to just buy a paint that isn't as thick as custard to start with, which is often the own label stuff in a tub.
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Unless it is new plaster.
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On 26/04/2012 16:32, Rednadnerb wrote:

You need to consider what happens when you add water to paint. It doesn't dilute the paint and the water tends to do its own thing once it's on the wall. I know it's common practice but some very basic tests would show that it isn't sound practice
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On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 16:28:53 +0100, stuart noble

The more I think about this, the more I wonder why do they recommend you dilute it with 10% water?
I can see the advantage for the merchant if you had to dilute it say 50:50: the tins would be smaller and lighter, which means they could fit twice as many on a lorry and halve their transport costs. But is it really worth it for 10%?
Wouldn't it also be less hassle for a tradesman to open a tin and start painting rather than have to walk across the house to get some water and spend time mixing the paint first?
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I was in Wickes last night and saw exactly the same thing. I think the marketing department are having a laugh. Trade emulsion is what you would use for new plaster, you just add some water to it. To sell a paint specifically for new plaster is taking the piss. Vinyl emulsion is more expensive and wipeable unlike normal emulsion which would come off on a damp cloth. Bathrooms and kitchens used to be done in Vinyl satin emulsion which offer some resistance to moisture or oil based eggshell which was scrubbable but they now have improved acrylic paints which they market as for the kitchen or bathroom. As far as I can tell, these bathroom kitchen paints are exactly the same as the water based acrylic eggshell that you would use on your woodwork.
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New plaster emulsion is not taking the piss. Normally you have to wait 4 to 6 weeks after plastering before you paint it so that it's totally dry. If you don't, you trap the moisture in the plaster and get efflorescence or mould.
New plaster emulsion is special (microporous, I believe) and allows moisture to evaporate from the plaster through the paint. So you don't have to wait the 4 to 6 weeks. Nice.
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On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 08:30:59 -0700 (PDT), Rednadnerb

I haven't used that (eggshell for wood) before. What is it like?
SWMBO wants the woodwork white. Oil-based gloss gives a lovely smooth finish but it yellows. I tried the water based gloss by Dulux and although it does not yellow, I didn't like the finish, which shows brush marks and is not as smooth as oil-based gloss. There seems to be a shift towards thee water-based paints and it worries me they are not good enough yet.
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The water based eggshell is similar to the water based gloss, easy to apply but not as smooth and doesn't cover as well as the oil based product although I am told that it doesn't yellow, I still prefer the oil based product.
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Fred wrote:

Mostly shite to obfusicate the buyer...

it's that simple.

Trade emulsion, mixed half of it with 25% water (3:1 paint) and give the wall a coat of that, saving the other half to do it again, this time with only a drop of water to give it a bit of slide

what difference does it make on new plaster?

Eggshell is oil based, like undercoat and gloss - you can get water based ones that have a similar finish. The finish on these paints is moisture resistant, so usefull in steamy environments like shower rooms etc, although saying that, my bathroom ceiling is painted with normal trade white emulsion and the walls in eggy - there's no difference and neither paper has peeled off anywhere (blown vinyl ceiling and lining paper on walls)

See above
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On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:16:50 +0100, "Phil L"
Sorry, that was my fault for talking about two uses in one post. I was going to make a mist coat as a 50:50 mix, but I see you recommend even weaker at 25:75.
I'm not going to use the whole tin priming the walls, so I'll have some left over for other jobs. I was commenting that if using it as a top coat, I would be worried about inconsistency between batches if I had to dilute it myself each time.
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All emulsions survive wipe cleaning, vinyl ones have a smoother surface than cheapo chalkier finish ones, so are a good bit easier to clean, thus more durable if cleaned. Cheapie ultramatt ones also get dirtier quicker.

All emulsion is good for plaster. When painting new plaster you can dilute the paint, but as someone mentioned the rsult is some of the glue going into the plaster, leaving the paint weakened. Or you can dampen the plaster and paint emulsion on undiluted.

A brand I've had decent results with. Dulux or Leyland mainly, a lot of people also like Crown. Cheapo stuff is a false economy, after a year it looks bad and needs redoing.

Dilution makes no difference to finish. Its to help it bond to dry plaster.

yes
Its a compromise between the good looks of matt and the easy cleanability of gloss, hence its use in bathrooms etc.

added mould inhibitors.

PS all emulsions let water vapour through, and can be put on before a new wall is fully dry. But the surface needs to be able to dry, as emulsions only set by drying, and paint staying wet is not good.
NT
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On Friday, April 27, 2012 1:08:21 PM UTC+1, NT wrote:

Are you sure about this? All books I've read on the topic as well as some online sources (say, http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/paintnewplaster.htm , for example) say only to do this with special paint such as Wickes New Plaster Emulsion or Dulux Supermatt.
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wrote:

Thanks for the detailed reply. I did once have some matt paint that got scuffed and when I tried to wipe it clean, the paint came off with the dirt on the cloth! I don't know what make that was; it was on the walls when I moved into the house. After that I always bought tins that said "wipeable".

I used to use Crown but I had problems with their emulsions peeling. Perhaps that wasn't the fault of the paint but a flaw in the preparation? I've used Dulux since then, which I think is generally recommended by this group, and (with the exception of their water based gloss) have not had any problems.
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