Two-way and intermediate switches

Given the switches are over two and a half floors, no. And I'm not sure how common those were when I did the wiring. ;-)

Yes, to some extent. But from what I've seen it remains minority usage only among DIYers. The terms line and phase have been around a long time, but the great majority of diyers call it live. Ditto other terms such as describing mains as low voltage - most people havent adopted that either.

NT

Phase used to get reasonable usage. Line was until recently typically thought of as an Americanism.

Agreed, does not mean we need to be wrong along with them thogh - but perhaps we ought to do a bit more hand holding and explaining...

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember NT saying something like:

Yes, I wonder what bright spark thought that up. The utter clot.

I beg your pardon! :)

e:

We're not wrong, that's the point.

NT

Well as was pointed out, referring to "live" and "Neutral" is technically wrong, since both are live conductors. I see no harm in using the correct terminology if one also explains its meaning and use where necessary.

Probably the people routinely working on 11 kV (and over) supplies!

Depends on the purpose of the Wiki really. The terms line & phase may be technically correct, but if they confuse the reader?

Why not use the generally accepted & understood term 'live' with an explanation of the correct terms as a footnote?

rote:

Its just one view, one of more than one in widespread use. That doesnt make either wrong.

NT

It's just s DPDT switch (easily available from Maplin, RS, etc.) with a little pre-wiring done for you.

MBQ

Think about it. If all up is off, then so is all down with an even number of switches. Unless you are incerdibly anal and go round the house setting them all up when you turn the lights out, it's just not worth bothering about.

MBQ

Not as readily available in matching switch plate and toggle though!

(not all ranges of light switch carry intermediate switches, even when you can find a supplier that carries the full range)

You could do that. Because the wiki makes it very easy to hyperlink key words, it lends itself to allowing easy inline explanations of terms though.

(I think an article in its own right on the terminology is probably worth having)

The important point on this particular topic, is not so much what term one used to describe the "live" wire, as encouraging people to think about the not so well understood concept that the neutral conductor *is also* a live wire.

(think of a bunch of houses with TN-S supplies. During periods of heavy load, the substation may be sticking out 100s of amps at 240V down each phase. Unless the phases have perfectly balanced loadings, there will be some significant nett current flowing in the neutral. At the far end of the wires that could mean a line potential on entry to a property has fallen to 230V, and the neutral has risen to 10V (with respect to substation earth). A Neutral to earth short at this point could result in significant current flow that won't be interrupted by by a fuse or MCB)

No, but the post I replied to did say "normal equipment switch" which I took not ti include light switches.

MBQ

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember John Rumm saying something like:

Yes, it's relative, but your average householder isn't going to work on or come near that kind of voltage, unless they're very unfortunate, so to designate 240V mains as 'LV' is nothing short of idiocy.

Its just one view, one of more than one in widespread use. That doesnt make either wrong.

NT

To the general public it may not be wrong, but all electrical certs and forms refer to LINE, and any electrical student using LIVE instead in an exam, would certainly loose marks.

So where would you set the threshold, and why?

MBQ

Well in _my_ world, about a volt. 12v, 5 and 3.3 are the common rails; these days there are some 1.7 and such like floating about too. Must be less than that.

But to use the term LV for the highest voltage that 99% of the population will ever meet? "Low" as "Safe" and "High" as "Unsafe" would make better sense.

Line / Live / Phase / Neutral? Line is something that comes down a wire. It doesn't have to be power, the telephone signal is line. Live is the one with the fuse on, and has been called that since I don't remember when. Phase - well that's one of the three that rotate around the Neutral - which is likely (not certain!) to be near enough earth that I can touch one with each hand, and not notice anything.

Andy