Trades people on the fiddle

[Tim Streater]

There's a paper trail on that cash, that's the difference.

[Tim Streater]

[snipped down to the appropriate context]

Certainly true of the US and the UK, both places where I have worked and paid pension contributions.

[Jethro_uk]

No he didn't. He actually say paying cash to avoid paying tax was wrong. Not paying cash to obtain a legitimate discount. It's understandable that a small business might prefer the 100% certainty of £10 today, rather than the vague promise (via cheque) of £15 tomorrow. Especially when banks charge for bounced cheques.

[Jethro_uk]

And this is how we know the end-of-the-earth stories are complete bollocks.

[Jethro_uk]

You'd better believe it.

A former company I worked for managed to negotiate a local deal on writing off tax on new computers. IIRC the normal period was 6 years. However the company accounts pointed out that because we had to be able to test our software on every computer available, we would be buying new ones every few months, that would be obsolete within 12 months. HMRC agreed to allow the deprecation to be over a year.

With so many fingers in pies and vested interests, there is no incentive for a streamlined simple system, and every encouragement to make it as labyrinthine as possible.

[Jethro_uk]

Exactly.

A while back, my local BBC radio station ran a "news"* item about the "dangers" of hand-car washes. This acted as a phone in. This intensely annoying woman presenter started warbling on about gangs of east Europeans and "how do you know if they're paying tax". I was heartily upset that the call I wanted to make saying "what the f*ck business is it of yours, you snooty cow" never got connected.

*It was really a massive puff piece for the association of car wash manufacturers and operators (or some such like). The jist was "oh, don't use those nasty hand car washes, they might not be insured, and damage your car.". Amusingly most calls were from people who would never use an automatic car wash after some damage and no compensation from the garage.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

There certainly are.

If I worked so late at night public transport was no longer available I was supplied with a (shared) car home. This was taxed as a benefit - even although I held a season ticket for PT. This didn't apply to other organisations.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Most in the UK would hope for a pension rather better than that.

[Huge]

Have you ever seen the Finance Act? The last time I saw one it was a foolscap book some 4" thick. That comes out every year. No wonder a lot of people think our tax system is too complicated.

[Huge]

[Jethro_uk]

Under the banner of "saving the planet" we have been subjected to a shed load of new taxes. If they really wanted to save the planet, they would

*start* by encouraging reuse and recycling, not faffing about paying the middle classes to put a windmill on their roof.

So either the planet doesn't need saving, or the government don't give a damn if it does. Either statement being true negates the need for a "green economy".

[Nightjar]

At the time of posting, I had only seen newspaper reports, which were as I said. BBC TV News were more careful about the accuracy of their quotes and made the point you do.

I don't have problems with accepting cheques, except insofar as my free business banking depends upon not having to pay in more than 20 each month. Cheques are an indisputable proof of debt, which can be pursued through the Courts and all resulting out of pocket expenses can be added to the original debt when seeking judgement. Issuing a cheque in the knowledge that there are insufficient funds to cover it is also fraud and can result in a criminal prosecution.

Colin Bignell

[Andrew May]

What paper trail would that be. By the time Tesco come to do their tax return the receipt that they gave me will have long been thrown away. They _could_ do the same with their copy.

[Huge]

Ah, I see. Agreed.

[Jethro_uk]

Unfortunately all of that assumes you can actually trace the person who wrote the cheque. When I worked for my Dad in the 80s (motor repairs) we had a few people pay with cheques that bounced, that then couldn't be found anywhere. In those days it was far more uncommon to ask/be asked for ID, although ISTR you needed proof of ID at Sainsburys if you wrote a cheque over the cheque guarantee limit.

Personally, if I were in trade, I would hate cash, and try and avoid it at all costs - I'm amazed at people in high value trades who make it known they *only* take cash. ISTM just making yourself a target for mugging.

[Nightjar]

...

If you've just done work on their house, you probably can.

You could probably have sold the debt to a debt collection company, who are well practised at tracing people. They would only have paid you a percentage of the amount due, but that would have been better than nothing.

Colin Bignell

[Jethro_uk]

Having had builders an roofers in recently, I was a little taken aback by their just taking the money without counting (I insisted they did). But they both said that they knew where I lived ...

We had one agency approach us. They claimed >95% success rate. Problem was you needed to buy a "book" of 10 vouchers at £25 each to sign up. The idea was you'd put an unpaid invoice in the post to them with a voucher, and they'd chase the money.

Would a debt collection company buy a single £150 debt ?

[tim.....]

Sometimes I wonder if you're real. Even if income tax was 5p in the pound, plenty would try and avoid paying it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was some nutcase on a political prog a week or so ago attempting to argue the exact opposite.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking "you're in cloud cuckoo land matey!"

tim

[Huge]

That doesn't help in the case where you've counted it and they haven't and they subsequently believe it to be short. That happened to me once, and I now insist they count it in front of me.

(The eejit builder had given some money to a mate from my envelope and forgotten about it...)

[Huge]

I assume you've never heard of the Laffer Curve, either.