Trades people on the fiddle

Quote Paying a plumber cash in hand is "morally wrong" because it denies the revenue vital funds, a Treasury minister said as the government outlined new ways of cutting down on 5bn in tax avoidance.
David Gauke, the exchequer secretary to the Treasury, risked shining a spotlight on whether any of his government colleagues have ever made cash in hand payments to plumbers when he described the practice as a large part of Britain's "hidden economy". Unquote
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jul/23/taxandspending-hmrc
Trades poeple operate to current moral norms, as displayed by bankers, politicians, journalists, entertainers, pro footballers etc. Is that news?
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Nemo wrote:

Its bloody silly.
We should not tax the things we want to happen, like working. We should tax the things we need to reduce, like fuel, smoking, and importing materials and finished goods.
I have long advocated a state pension age related (but not work related) that replaces the complex system of the dole and benefits, and zero income tax, with infinitely more taxes raised on the sale on non subsistence goods. Then scrap the minimum wage, because its no longer needed as people get the pension whether they work or not.
There are issues of policing BUT it has the following advantages
- people who live here pay the sales and import taxes on goods bought here. And high earners will WANT to live here. The presence of slots of stinkingly rich people here with miney to burn can only be goodm,, even if luxury goods are expensive.
- the labour market is totally flexible. People can work when they like for who they like - they lose no benefits by working - at anything at all. From fruit picking to washing cars and polishing your boots.
- because the state pension is limited to those who are actually born here, not those who arrive (tough, but fair) low income people will not find it easy to immigrate. However high earners to whom the state pension is almost an irrelevance, will.
- because taxation is not applied to subsistence goods - essentially food clothing and other basics - lower paid workers will be massively subsidised and be able to compete well with offshore workers without any directives needing to be applied. If the state pension is say £3.50 and hour you only need pay - say - £3 an hour on top of that to employ someone at a living wage and with no tax or NI to pay its not a bad crack.
- Because imported goods and materials are now expensive, there is a huge incentive to recycle refurbish and repair. Essentially it baises the national economy towards re-use and away from consumer buy and trash.
- naturally this free market in labour with the government simply not caring about who earns what - only what they spend and what they spend it on - would require exit from the EU. Well, so what?
Its time we put Britain first, and British workers, yea even unto the man who cuts your grass.
--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
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wrote:

[rest of Wodney snipped]
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
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wrote

Presumably you actually are that stupid.
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You gave it away, sap, with your usual inability to spell some plurals properly.
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
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wrote

It was never meant to not be obvious it was me, cretin.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you actually are that stupid.
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Christ - and a split infinitive too! You *are* doing well.
Nice attempt at a shimmy, Wodders.
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
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wrote

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you actually are that stupid.
I wouldn’t have formatted it in my usual unusual style if I didn’t want anyone to notice it wasn’t me, fuckwit.
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[snip]

So why did you do it then, you fuckwit liar?
Oh while you're at it, why don't you just fuck off? You're as welcome here as in any other newsgroup you infest - i.e, as welcome as a turd topping on an ice cream sundae.
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So why did you do it?
--
geoff

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writes

To get around the TurNiP's killfile, fuckwit.
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diy.org> escribi:>You really are a sad case, aren't you
Time for a quick repost:
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http://cheezburger.com/6304683520
http://cheezburger.com/6258840832
http://cheezburger.com/6254529792
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Why would you do that you fuckwit? Do you always force yourself into conversations where someone doesn't want to hear what you have to say? Do you spend a lot of time getting smacked in the teeth in pubs? Or are you just the Billy-No-Mates you make yourself out to be here?
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Notice you've left out alcohol. Freudian slip?
--
*Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 24/07/2012 11:02, 78u77 wrote:
god almighty.......................... none of you use hospitals, you all pay for your medical aid ? any of you ever had a receipt of a chinese or any take away, do they pay their taxes based on what they take? people are fiddling their tax and they still expect to get everything for nothing.don't complain about people getting benefits while most of you don't even contribute to the tax and N.I. that pays for it.
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Nemo wrote:

I used to feel bad about the odd fiddle. Now I do not, because I see the government wasting my money on wars based on lies, bankers being bailed out of their own self inflicted failure, and big fat contracts worth billions being awarded to the incompetant like G4S for no good reason.
--
Tim Watts

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On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:57:23 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

You forgot to mention the massive expenses fiddles perpetrated by more politicians than we have yet found out about...
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Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
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Paying cash is not necessarily 'bent' - AFAIK unlike consumer bank accounts, business bank accounts charge per transaction so there is a cost in putting a cheque through the bank. As long as you get a valid receipt (VAT receipt where applicable) then paying some of the bills with cash which is then recycled by the tradesperson on every day expenditure is in no way wrong.
Obviously the suggestion by the consumer to the tradesperson that they "Pay cash, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, no names no pack drill no VAT and no income tax" is encouraging the tradesperson to contrave the taxation laws. At least we are not as paranoid as some Nordic countries where tax is/was so high that people went to a cashless economy and traded skills; "You mend my car and I'll paint your house" and similar. Whereupon they changed the law so that you had to declare all services done for other people regardless of if you were paid or not. Makes casual sex a finacially risky proposition. A charity f*ck should now appear on your income tax form. Please, not in this country!
Cheers
Dave R
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They'll be reintroducing schedule A tax next, for such services. As in:
Let's see, you just did the washing up, vacuumed the house, and cut the grass. That took you four hours. You might have employed someone at say £8/hour to do that, so £32 there. We want 20% of that, so £6.40 please.
Ker-Ching !!
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
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On 24/07/2012 11:45, David WE Roberts wrote:

Indeed... also what has how has the recipients tax affairs got anything to do with the person paying the bill?

Not only that, what are the alternatives? They can either take a cheque at a huge risk of not getting paid, or they can shell out hundreds a quarter to their bank for card payment facilities and a merchant account.

That is already the case here... or at least HMRC would have you believe. If you "give away" a service that you would normally derive income from, they still expect you to pay the tax on the notional value!

--
Cheers,

John.

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