Towel rail too big?

[JoeJoe]

I am installing a new central heating in my flat, and intend to put a towel radiator in the room.

I used the B&Q BTU calculator

to get a rough idea of the size that I need.

Using the room dimensions: 1.43m (4.2') W, 3.60m (11.8') L, 3.20m 10.5') H I got 2601.9 BTU.

Looking the BTU figure on Screwfix I ordered this one

?id=17165&ts=80590.Now that it arrived, it looks absolutely huge, especially considering the rather modest dimensions of my bathroom.

Am I doing something wrong here? I would like to be able to keep the bathroom warm, but this monster is going to take half my available space...

Any advice/help will be much appreciated.

[Paul Andrews]

> to get a rough idea of the size that I need.

?id=17165&ts=80590.>> Now that it arrived, it looks absolutely huge, especially considering the

I think the major mistake was not looking at the dimensions of the rail when ordering!

That surprises me - your bathroom is 3.6 metres long by 1.43 metres. you need a vertical column wider than 600mm to accommodate the rail. I have installed a similar rail in our bathroom which has 2m as the longest wall,

1.7m as the smallest. Our rail is installed on the shortest wall and there's loads of space either side. We are installing a tall thin cabinet beside it.

If you don't have 600mm spare space then you won't have a very big radiator!

Paul

[JoeJoe]

?id=17165&ts=80590.>>>> Now that it arrived, it looks absolutely huge, especially considering the

Well, I have other things to consider that I did not mention.

The room is pretty much split in two by two vertical waste pipes going from ceiling to floor exactly half way lengthwise, on either side of the room (that was the way they sometimes used to do this apparently). With the room ~360cm long, the wastes just about leave enough room for a bath as you go in (2cm to spare...), leaving a 70cm "corridor" along the bath to go to the inner half where the toilet and sink are to be installed.

Another problem is that the waste is very old, and at an angle that forces me to put the toilet about half way along the inner half (if you are still with me...). So, you can just about sit on the toilet and wash your hands at the same time...

Hope that explains my problem.

PS: do you think that the dimensions/BTU output are correct? Will I get away with a smaller/narrower radiator?

Thanks again.

[Paul Andrews]

> e/planning_tools/btu_calculator.jsp#result)

?id=17165&ts=80590.> >>

It all seems rather academic. If you can't fit a larger radiator you'll have to fit a smaller one. If the smaller one isn't as efficient as you'd like it's going to be 'tough cheese' because you have little other option. Go with the largest/most efficient radiator you can find for the space available. I think that you can even get radiators that fit around a basin pedestal, though that's the kind of thing you'd probably buy during a whole bathroom refit. Screwfix do a 450mm wide radiator too:

. Just how much room do you have?

I've seen bathrooms with very small radiators and they haven't been cold. Depending on your house, I'd say that in most cases a bathroom will be warm anyway if you don't keep the door shut and the window open all the time. Is there an existing radiator? is the bathrrom cold?

You might well get some suggestions about underfloor heating, but I suspect you won't want to do that.

We had a problem with waste pipes and a soil pipe in our small bathroom. in our case we have relocated the soil pipe outside and it's made a huge difference.

Paul

[Matt]

Towel rails always produce less heat in practice than they are rated for, but what you have is still undersized as that Screwfix rail is rated at 2188 BTU which is 15% *less* than your rough calcs. That size towel rail is roughly what would be needed for a typical 7ft square bathroom, It could struggle if your wall / ceiling losses are high.

The only way you'll get something physically smaller is either a combined towel/radiator or a dual convector radiator (a 500x500 is rated at around 2500BTU) You could also fit a much smaller towel rail and then use something like a Myson Kickspace fan convector mounted under the bath or in another dead space to top up the heat.

[JoeJoe]

----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Andrews" Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 2:06 PM Subject: Re: Towel rail too big?

?id=17165&ts=80590.>> >>

I was probably not clear enough again...

The radiator that I bought would fit in the space that I have. My problem is that I am worried that it would completely dominate the (quite limited) space I have. I looked at the one hat you suggested above (and others) - they would be much better as far as space is concerned, but back to my original question: would they make the place warm enough? I am basically looking for the smallest radiator that would still make the place warm enough.

I only bought the place last month, and it was then, and is still now, in a inhabitable state: no heating, hot water, kitchen, bathroom, etc...

Too expensive I am afraid... Only looking to spend We had a problem with waste pipes and a soil pipe in our small bathroom.

[John Rumm]

I would suggest you are actually better off with a large rail anyway. Screwfix do a nice chrome TRV set by pegler that will stop it overheating the room, and the large size will ensure you still get some heat out of it into the room once it has towels on it!

(if you size the rad so that it only just meets the heat demand of the room you have the problem of the room getting cold the moment you cover any of the rad with insulation (aka towels))

[Set Square]

> to get a rough idea of the size that I need.

?id=17165&ts=80590.>> Now that it arrived, it looks absolutely huge, especially considering

As others have suggested, it's probably not big *enough*!

Basically you have to decide whether you want to heat the bathroom or whether you want a fancy-looking towel rad - 'cos the two are mutually exclusive! Because of the construction of towel rads, size for size they have a *much* lower heat output than conventional finned rads.

My philosophy is to use a slightly over-sized conventional rad (I would suggest something like

in your case) and to mount a simple (non-heated) towel rail above it to enable towels to be draped over the rad.

[John Rumm]

Or you could do both... install a smaller towel rad for putting towels on, and another small double panel rad elswhere in the bathroom for heating the room.

[Andrew Gabriel]

which drops to nothing as you cover them in towels.

Snap!

[Chris J Dixon]

You have a couple of ways to go here. The heat output of a radiator depends mostly on the surface area (and surface finish - chrome is about 15% worse than paint). A towel radiator is quite large for its output relative to a conventional radiator, as you will see by comparing them on Screwfix.

So, once you have satisfied yourself on the heat output you need, do you really want a towel radiator, or would you prefer a conventional radiator plus towel rail?

A further factor, which I haven't seen addressed, is that by covering the radiator with towels, there has to be a significant lagging effect, thus reducing output.

Chris

[Set Square]

Perhaps I should have said "mutually exclusive in the same device". You can, of course, have one of each - but the OP appears to be strapped for wall space.

[Set Square]

In one of my earlier posts, I suggested using an over-size radiator for this very reason - although I may not have explained the rationale explicitly.

[John Rumm]

Sometimes if wall space is at a premium, it is eaiser to get a couple of smaller rads into otherwise less useful spaces than find a big space for a large one... hard to say without seeing a drawing of the OP's room.