Totally OT - Recruiting from Overseas (Engineering not crop picking)

[thescullster]

Hi Guys

I know that this has been heralded for years already, but things are genuinely starting to bite.

This is a serious longshot, but given the diversity of group users I am hopeful someone out there may have experienced similar issues.

I have been managing a small drawing office for many years and need to recruit "design engineers". I have enclosed the title in "" as the term design draughtsman would be just as appropriate, but probably doesn't have the kudos it once did.

Many will be aware of the shortage of engineering talent that is affecting the UK manufacturing base right now. Being located in East Yorkshire seems to make the recruiting scene even more difficult.

Has anyone looked to recruit technical staff from overseas? If so, how was the process? Did you manage to fill your vacancies? Would you recommend this approach? Which countries were suitable recruiting grounds for this? Is there a UK agency that specialises in this area?

This request is specifically for individuals to relocate to the UK and work in our office, not for agencies wishing to carry out work for us in their own country.

Any informed comments appreciated.

Thanks

Phil

[The Natural Philosopher]

As a 'design engineer' who can do draughting, why not simply advertise for people to work from home on a project basis?

I did that for model aircraft successfully - my output was CAM files for manufacturing.

[thescullster]

Hi NP

We are already outsourcing certain aspects of the work, but there is general reluctance to letting go of sensitive designs/IP.

The other issue is that our projects are pretty complex involving project managers, process engineers, electrical engineers etc etc., so it is a lot easier to conduct this from a central office (particularly given the ridiculously short lead times).

Phil

[Jethro_uk]

Given that there's currently a flight of qualified people out of the UK, I suspect you might have some issues. The main one being that until we know what Brexit Britains immigration policy is, asking someone to relocate into the UK is a big ask. Would you pay relocation expenses ? Would you also cover them if it turned out Brexit Britain has decided not to allow immigrants from wherever you attract staff ?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Does make you wonder. Our schools and unis seem to be churning out people qualified for jobs which don't exist. Before satisfying the needs of our existing industry. Or perhaps it's just youngsters having no idea of what

*practical* career they'd like to get into.

[Jethro_uk]

Generally, in the UK, things are run to benefit the provider, not the customer. So education policy is really to benefit teachers, health policy is really to benefit doctors, and law and order is to benefit the lawyers.

A policy devised to best benefit the children (with a note that education should be lifelong) would be unrecognisable compared to what we have.

[charles]

no - it's to show the Government in a good light. That's why we have ministers for these things.

[Bill]

My teacher son blames the operation of the apprentice scheme. There are apprenticeships, but largely leading nowhere. Employing an apprentice is hard work if done properly (I know this from experience) and small firms find it much easier and cheaper to find good, competent EU labour than commit to years of training.

Adam is a star.

[Jethro_uk]

That's a mere twiddle. A root'n'branch reform would see education treated as a lifelong amenity that people can dip in and out of as suits their abilities, circumstances, and most importantly, what the country needs. So you get a good basic grounding - ideally learning at least how to learn - and then there are many routes forward. A levels for the more academic, apprenticeships and more practical courses for those that are capable but not inherently "academic". But you leave the system open so that adult learning is just as important, and people who may not have been up to a degree aged 21 can easily get one (and more) aged 40. Possibly in a subject that wasn't so important previously.

Of course UK "education" - particularly higher - is simply about extracting vast sums of money from students to swell the coffers of the Universities. Thus inducing Universities to pass as many students as possible to attract more students and thus more money. It's someone elses problem (as is always the case under rampant capitalism) if those students aren't fit to count lorries in a queue in Kent.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I found it very rewarding to have apprentices - although they weren't called that. But pretty well all of ours had a real interest in their job as well as career. In other words, just not a way of making enough money to live on.

The big snag arises in a 'freelance' world. Why would you want to train someone to compete for your job?

[The Natural Philosopher]

This is true of all things where its state provided or there is another effectiuve cartel.

[thescullster]

Hi Dave

One issue with attracting "apprentice" grade applicants as we all remember them is that I really need to attract a good academic level as well.

2D drafting in CAD is fast becoming a thing of the past. For the sort of work we are doing, the ideal fit would be at least low graduate level with some experience of real metal who could work with parametric design code to automate the creation of frequently used models that required significant changes between projects.

Oh and they would also need to be meticulous and highly organised.

Yes I too would be interested in taking on learners, but due to the pressure to recruit in a short time scale I'm not sure that is feasible.

Phil

[Brian Gaff]

Its odd you should ask this, as our council seems to have a French chap in charge of the cycle project civil engineering stuff, they also had an Aussie as well but he seems to have gone elsewhere. Up until recently a couple were Asians but seemed to have little grasp of disability legislation and were let go when their contract ended. That is another issue of course, nobody is going to uproot themselves if its a short term hiring on a rotating basis as we always seem to have these days. Brian

[Jethro_uk]

People will do anything if you pay them enough.

[The Marquis Saint Evremonde]

But you didn't, and now that you're short of skilled staff you're complaining that you haven't got them.

And if everyone takes the same attitude, it never will be.

I understand your position, I'm just not sure that I sympathise with it that much. I bet when you started out you were given years of on-the job training before you became genuinely productive.

[Jac Brown]

Hard to substantiate that claim given the historic low unemployment rate.

Before satisfying the needs of our

Or deciding that engineering and drafting doesn?t interest them.

[Jac Brown]

Not everyone will do that. I wouldn?t kiss Trumps arse no matter how much you paid me and I bet you wouldn?t either.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I'd do it for a million no probs

[alan_m]

Perhaps the term "draughtsman" is the bit that is well out of date. You need a designer in the required field who is capable of using the computer (CAD/A.N Other) tools. You may find that advertising for a design draughtsman you are only appealing to old school talent rather than to the skilled modern talent.

[alan_m]

And how would the employer keep them once in the UK if they decided that their skill level could get more money elsewhere and/or sack them if their stated skill level turned out to be rather bogus?