the "Hello World" example, and it didn't work. I imagine that's because Mason isn't installed on the server. As expected, I think the answer to my question "Is that available on your everyday shared hosting account or does it need anything special?" needs qualifying a bit.
Mike Barnes ( snipped-for-privacy@bluebottle.com) wibbled on Friday 04 February 2011
19:37:
Remember, it's just a set of perl modules.
You can manually install it in your file area and invoke it as CGI with a suitable perl library path override.
Not ideal but unless you have a high load website, losing the optimisation of having modperl support (ie stuff resident in memory in Apache) may not matter.
There are two approaches to writing PHP. You can start with a HTML page and include bits of PHP or you start with a PHP file and include bits of HTML. I prefer the latter[1].
djc ( snipped-for-privacy@bembo.invalid) wibbled on Friday 04 February 2011 21:27:
There's a 3rd approach (which is arguably a blend of the above):
The page "hit" starts a script (PHP, perl, whatever) that implements the logic of the page - this prepares a bunch of variables.
The script then invokes an HTML (or CSS) template page that is principally HTML (or CSS) but includes small snippets of templating inserted which draws upon the prepared variables only (no complex logic - but simple loops are allowed for tables/lists/etc).
The templating make be in the same script language as the logic script (eg embedded PHP or perl via Mason or Embperl) - or may be a special templating language that specifically avoids complex logic (by not implementing any).
Having used that template-based approach quite a lot, I've come to the conclusion that it's a bit of a PITA. I always seem to end up with contorted code to prepare the list of variables, when it would be *so* much more natural to put the logic in the place that the data is used.
On balance, and unlike John, I prefer to have an HTML page with bits of PHP in it.
Mike Barnes ( snipped-for-privacy@bluebottle.com) wibbled on Friday 04 February 2011
23:04:
I'v tried it both ways - I prefer the HTML with embedded code - mostly because to some extent you can work on the page with the editor in "web aware mode" - mostly because I find it more of a chore to keep the HTML clean and correct as opposed to the code. But i tried to hive of serious code to a pure code "included" module just to cut the code noise out of the HTML - and also because it's likely I will use that code in more than one page.
Same here. Additionally I have one site that is mixed Wordpress and straight HTML. Although Wordpress tends towards the (alien, to me) HTML- within-PHP model, I've turned it all inside out, which allows me to use a Dreamweaver template and the Wordpress loop etc within the same page.
The code in HTML mixed is ok for smallish projects I find, but it becomes a configuration control and testing nightmare on larger apps. You make a cosmetic change to a web page, and suddenly find yourself needing to run regression tests on lots of application code because it happened to be in a file you just edited.
You also make the code base rather less reusable since "stuff" is less well decoupled from surrounding stuff.
Bob Eager wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mid.individual.net:
I remember learning TECO on the PDP-8. However, IIRC the last TECO program (macro?) I wrote was on a VAX-
11/785 emulating a PDP-11/70 under RSX-11M. IIRC it was for stripping much rubbish from multiple TKB listings and retaining just the 'useful' stuff. Saved a lot of paper. But that was a loooooooooooooong time ago...
S'ok, me'n'Bob are of an age. Punched cards. Paper tape. Machines with a few K of memory. My exposure to computers was timed such that I saw the PDP11 rise and fall. I never made it to VAXen; I went to work for Xerox on *much* more esoteric stuff.
I never used TECO for jobs like that. But knowing TECO turned out to be useful when I had to use the assembler ROM on the BBC microcomputer. Guess what? The editor was a TECO subset. Also used it on RT-11, TOPS-10, VMS, and even FreeBSD.
My tool of choice (once again) for shrinking listings was ML/I.
Oh yes. I can remember when we got our first Newbury terminals with a massive 4k of storage so that we could edit code off-line then upload it in massive 4k chunks.
My first computer was a PDP-11, about which I knew very little then I got an account on a CDC Cyber and later had a variety of Apple II, PET, Sirius. Then I moved into the commercial world and was back to using a PDP-11 for a time.
That was where I started, but sometime in the early 1980s we got the Newbury VDU terminals, tasteful creations in cream and brown with keyboards fixed to the monitors.
I should be getting my digger to work, but it's raining.
Steve Firth (%steve%@malloc.co.uk) wibbled on Sunday 06 February 2011 14:06:
I have just thrown out some VT320 terms - heaven knows why we still had them. They (including 250kg[1] of other crap) were pissing me off so I looked up the college WEEE procedures and started booking stuff out.
[1] Why did I know the weight... Well, long story, but we have a max floor loading in the computer room and we are upto it. That crap = about 20 1U servers or 5-6 disk servers depending on model...
Kept a couple of WYSE terms as they still worked and have sensible connectors on the back which makes them occasionally useful for diagnostics on switches etc. They knew how to build stuff 25 years ago!
New lighting installed in the wife's art glass display cabinets. 10W dichroics too dim, they'll have to go back, 50W dichroics (came with the fittings) too bright, but they'll have to do for the time being.
Miserable wife now complaining about having to clean & replace art glass. Her real problem is that she wanted to go outside and do some gardening, but it's wet and windy.
I bought a couple of packs (10 bulbs per pack) of 35W dichroic GU10 bulbs from Lidl. They seem to do the job and they have reduced the kitchen lighting from 1000W to 700W so it's a saving.
Heh, them's as buys glass can clean it I say. Usually when my wife gets that spring cleaning gleam in her eye.
I managed to give the digger a clean, polished up the rams and sprayed them with WD40 to try to stop corrosion. They seem fine, but it's a constant battle with the elements.
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