Toilet pan leak/replacement

[Chris B]

After checking the obvious suspects such as cistern to pan connector

and pan to soil-pipe connector

I am forced into the somewhat unpalatable conclusion that the water leak around my toilet pan

(discovered by water on the ceiling below) is coming from an invisible crack/porosity somewhere around the U bend.

Questions arising from this are

1) Are hairline cracks in the pan possible, certainly none are visible looking in from the top. The pan is now out of use and the water level has dropped about 2cm from the norm over a period of 10 days, but we have had some strong winds which in the past have had a small effect on the level (but from memory not as much as the current drop).

2) Are the "cistern-to-pan" and "pan-to-soilpipe" connectors simply push in rubber seals or is it likely that some form of adhesive/sealant will have been used?

3) The existing pan dates back to 1987, have soil pipe dimensions changed since?

4) Is there a standard for "back to wall" toilet pans in terms of water inlet and outlet positions?

Ie will it just be remove the two screws securing the pan to the floor and pull this pan forward, get a new pan and push it into place, or do I need to call in a plumber?

Any help welcome.

[Brian Gaff]

Only two screws? Mine has four. Brian

[Harry Bloomfield]

Brian Gaff submitted this idea :

Both of mine have four fixing screws.

[newshound]

I think I had hairline cracks in one I replaced a few months ago. Soil pipe dimensions should not have changed but there's no standard for spigot height or other dimensions. I also wanted to change an old plastic cistern at the same time, went for the Wickes basic, £50 for pan, close coupled cistern, and (slightly nasty plastic) seat. I was able to wiggle the main outfall pipe enough to get a good connection.

[Pat Pending]

You can get flexible pan connectors which should easily overcome any slight variation. If this is a close coupled cistern he should check if it's just leaking when flushed. In which case it could be the 'doughnut' between the two. The cistern should also be at a right angle to the pan, if not it will also leak. Perhaps it has moved slightly?

[Chris B]

so its not unheard of then...

Soil

As far as taking apart the existing one will it be glued/sealed or just a push fit?

That's helpful thanks

If this is a close coupled cistern

it isnt he should check if

I (now) have reasonable access into the space behind the pan (at least to look if not to work) and there really is no sign of a leak at the cistern feed to the pan or the soil pipe connection.

[Tricky Dicky]

Have you checked the cold feed to the cistern, particularly if it is a bottom feed type? A bit of a long shot but if you have an external overflow and it has been leaking outside it might be a loose fitting as these are often carelessly fitted that could also be leaking internally, you will need to adjust the water level in the cistern. Unfortunately by the nature of their use pans tend to develop a bit of a low spot underneath them so a leak elsewhere could simply pool around the base.

Richard

[John Rumm]

Yup, I suppose they are possible - although leaks from joints are more likely unless the pan has been "stressed" in some way...

They generally (these days anyway) are push in. You can use a lubricant on them to make installation easier. Some fitters may have bedded them in with some silicone sealant. They aught to pull free easily enough though.

The pipes, no not really.

There is not a hard and fast standard, but many will be in roughly similar positions. You can normally make up any difference with the choice of the right WC connector. The inlet pipe might require more fiddling)

In principle its fairly easy.

In cases where the cistern is concealed, and you can't easily get to where the outlet of the flush pipe connects to it, you will need to take care not to end up dislodging that end of it in the process.

[newshound]

One tip, replace the pan hold-down screws with stainless.

[DerbyBorn]

Harry Bloomfield [e-mail]> wrote in news:psf7a7 $57r$ [e-mail]:

Both of mine have two screws. 30 years separate the two.

[Handsome Jack]

Chris B [e-mail]> posted

Why would strong winds affect the level of water in a toilet? The mind boggles.

[Andy Burns]

Presumably you still shit in a bucket over there? If so, you can be excused from having noticed that pressure differences in the vent stack on windy days "suck" water over the U-bend into the sewer?

[newshound]

I have one of each. The newer one has only two, but it has a much bigger "foot" (being close coupled) making it intrinsically more stable.

As I said elsewhere, I only use stainless screws for these, now. I know you can get brass in pozidrive, but these can corrode and fracture.

[John Rumm]

Pressure changes on the soil stack vent, or even in the sewer itself, can cause some water from the trap to be "sucked" into the sewer.

Yeah, any sufficiently advanced technology will appear like magic and all that...