I am looking to replace the internals of my toilet cistern but want to improve on the equipment used. Below is a link to a photo showing existing layout.
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want to keep the flush handle and water inlet as they are, but that leaves little room for float valve and handle mechanism. Can anyone suggest suitable quality parts that can be used which will fit in this cramped end space? I have considered a flap type discharge, but these do not seem to be too reliable.
What's wrong with replacing what you've got like-for-like? Have you considered a torbeck valve, they take up less room than a conventional ballcock. But I don't really understand why space is at a premium in your toilet cistern more than in any other.
How good is pretty good on the flap valves - life expectancy? I intend to box in the cistern and fit a back to wall pan in front. Maybe use an extended handle out through the front of the boxing. These push button jobbies, do they only drive vertical syphons suitable for
6 litre flush units? Can you still buy decent capacity (9L) cisterns? I want at least one bog in our house with a serious flush action. The close coupled Ideal Alto I put in the bathroom is pitiful.
When I fitted the Alto, I remember trying to frig the water depth, but if you pushed the level up, the button flush became difficult to activate.
They are quite commonplace in the U.S. I have a number of friends with them and they don't seem to have problems. Occasionally the washer requires replacing, but that is a lot easier than removing the siphon of a conventional cistern.
Ah... different situation.
If you are going to do that, I would really recommend dumping the entire cistern and replacing it with something like a Grohe.
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've just fitted one of these as part of one of their frame systems for a wall mount pan, and it's excellent. I looked long and hard at the issues you mention plus servicability and so on.
If you click the link on the page, you can download PDFs of the various documentation.
A few points.
- The cistern itself is only 118mm deep, so you can make the boxing in part much shallower than the present one if you like. Capacity is achieved by making the cistern wider.
- Three options for flushing. You can have a plate on the top or at the front or a remote flush button with one or two small plastic tubes to hook up. There are loads of designs in their range.
- If you go for the plate type flush, the cistern can be serviced entirely through the top or front aperture. There is a service valve inside the cistern with screw slot to shut off the water. this connects via a braided hose to the float valve (equilibrium type like Torbeck, very quiet, even on the mains). You can detach this and remove it completely. The flush valve undoes with a bayonet type fitting and also comes out in its entirety. I've gone for remote button, so I'm providing a removable ply panel on the top, and then a removable granite top will go on that. However, it's all arranged for service from the top only.
- There is adjustment for the short and long flushes separately. The long one can be adjusted if you want a longer flush. However, the action is somewhat different to traditional siphon flushes in that the water is dumped into the pan quite rapidly. I imagine that the intention is so that it can be cleared more effectively. There is no issue with even the button pneumatic mechanism being inadequate. I can't tell a difference in operation between the max and min settings for cistern capacity. The plunger assembly is quite light weight and involves a polystyrene float. It appears that this has something to do with reducing the amount of force required to just lift the plunger and release the water.
Thanks once again Andy for such informative response. Have seen these Grohe offerings before, but they look a bit technical (and expensive) to me. If I can configure the current arrangement to look the part I am inclined to go that route (there are other space constraints due to the cistern and toilet backing on to a wall with restricted side space due to boxed in stack). All these back to wall pans and furniture just seem ridiculously expensive - very easy to spend a grand just on this wee poo pit!.
The installation instructions for Grohe make the products look more complicated than they really are. To achieve the requirement for localised instructions, rather than going for a single, scant diagram and a thick booklet written in 25 different languages they have gone for a completely diagrammatic set of step by step instructions.
I spent a couple of hours going carefully through the instructions for the cistern and for the frame to make very sure that I understood all the nuances. As it happened, I needn't have been concerned - it was all straightforward.
Most of the apparent complexity comes out of the design that they have done to make the unit servicable through the flush plate aperture. If you have boxed in the cistern, tiled and all the rest of it, it would be quite tearful if the lot had to come out to fix the cistern.
Certainly it's true that the quality manufacturers like Grohe, Hansgrohe and so on are more expensive than the rest of the market. It's a case of getting what you pay for. There are other concealed cisterns on the market, e.g.
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I don't know if they are less expensive or by how much.
If you're going to do that, then I would certainly look carefully at the servicing arrangement. I'm not sure whether you can get conventional flush siphons that plug in and are entirely servicable from the top.
The thing to watch for as well is that in buying all the bits separately, you can start to approach the price of a new cistern, so keep an eye out for that.
One could.
I spent about that on the wall mount pan (something of a designer one), Grohe frame and cistern, hand basin and Hansgrohe wall mounted faucet.
Out of these, the two most expensive items were the pan and the faucet.
One thing I would suggest, is to identify what you want, make a list and then go for competitive pricing to several suppliers - on line and bricks and mortar. I did quite a bit better than even the lowest offered price by doing this. Basically it's a volume/margin thing. The suppliers can all pretty much obtain anything but being presented with an opportunity for a three figure sale may secure a better price.
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