Well if that is genuinely the case then I stand corrected ! But I thought every new boiler installation had to be certified by a corgi registered engineer. How many corgis are likely to be willing to certify a DIY installation when they haven't enjoyed the profit from the install themselves?
Simple. Drive down to the council tip.
Throw combi on tip.
Pick up another piece of crap from tip. Drive home.
Thats *how* you do it, *why* on earth you would *want* to is beyond me..;-)
In article , Ed Sirett writes
That's consistent with what I paid for a replacement boiler and radiators in a two-bedroom flat. (WB Junior 28i, 7 radiators, re-using most of the existing pipework.) Took 4 days.
No, the installation of a boiler (or cooker, gas fire or other heat-producing appliance) has to be notified to building control (under Part L). A CORGI will (usually) do this as part of an installation, but you can do it yourself the usually Building Control way.
Dream? I hardly get time to sleep for doing boilers at around the prices Ed is suggesting.
I never said anywhere in my posts that I have fitted boilers, however being in property development my experience is in having plumbers do this type of work for me on numerous occasions.
And before you ask "yes" they are fully qualified Corgi registered plumbers, I stick to the same tradespersons all the time, and none are cowboys or foreigners for that matter.
Even a top quality Vailliant Eco Tec boiler 38k can be picked up for around £900 and you would not install a big boiler such as this in a 1 bed flat would you? So on that scinario a 24k boiler should cost no more than £650 so it's perfectly reasonable to suggest around £1000 to supply & fit.
Like I said, some prices stated on here are totally unreasonable from some of you plumbers.
In message , Mike Tomlinson writes
When I replaced my boiler (to a 28i Junior, as it happens), it took me two long half days (not including flushing) with a friend along to help
The only other down side is that some manufacturers may wish to wriggle out of their warranty obligations if you diy.
CORGI are having a crack down on members 'signing off' non-members work. It's as much about where the buck stops as it is about loss of revenue.
In fairness there is some considerable variation between the best case easiest job and the worst case hardest job.
In the easiest case: Combi to combi. No problem draining (how many jobs start off by drain a rad to get a hose on one of the valves to drain the rest and then you have to fix the lack of a working drain c*ck.). Original flue was concentric and not made good so old one comes out easily new one goes in easily. Original boiler had thermostat and supply to standards. Original system has TRVs all in good order, on all the required rads and the right way round. Original system is perfectly clean (but even then the instructions state the system must be cleaned). There is a simple way of implementing the condensate drain. All the original pipework is lined up and in the 'standard' order.
In a difficult case: None of the above hold true and there is a Harcopak to disentangle from the house.
More like knock a third off the BG price, but spend the money on good kit.
snipped-for-privacy@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
I think you should take up the business as you will never be short of work at your prices!
It all depends on how easy the fit is. If there are a lot of bits of plumbing adaptors, to be made up, the thing itself needs a hole cut in a wall for a flue, and so on and so forth, plus filling, commissioning, bleeding pressurising and so on, its not unlikely to take a couple of blokes a couple of days, which is around 600 quid with some pipes and fittings thrown in.
Ad a boiler on top, and I can't see much change out of £1300, or more..
Id say £1500-£2000 personally.
Ed Sirett wrote:
Well, it's funny you should say that.I've been working for a fairly wealthy shop owner recently. My prices are rock bottom, as I struggle for work. I'm not sure why I struggle, as I always do a good job, and get repeat work from people I have worked for. Anyway, I'd dug a trench for him, and wasnt sure about what to charge (I posted on here about it), but settled for a £150 bill. He usually quibbles about my prices,but this time immediately said 'OK'. I knew then I'd charged too little. A chat then ensued about pricing, and me not earning enough. He told me his first business had gone bust, as they were not charging enough. It was an engineering Company, who had to do a lot of samples, supply them, then give a quote to make the production. They were always the cheapest by a long way (which he had found out when the Company had closed down), but the samples were good. The buyer would be happy with the samples, but thought the Company had done a 'special' job on them, and from the price they had quoted, they would just throw anything out of the door, and not keep up the quality standards. So they had done samples for nothing, then got no work from them. It had happened many times over. Eventually the workload couldnt keep up with the expenses, so they shut down. He then spoke to many of his potential buyers, and they all (more or less) said the same, that they were just not charging enough, and gave no confidence of good quality at such prices.
However, on the other side, for me personally, if I can't get work at the prices I charge, would I get more if I charged 50% more. I am dubious about it, as I get people complaing now about I charge too much
- £50 to repair a toilet pan soil outlet I quoted - the reply was "I thought you'd do it for £10". Between a rock and a hard place is how I feel at the moment! Alan.
I'm paying about £750 for Worcester-Bosch 24i Juniors (including flue & VAT) - the cheapest reasonable-make combis. What make & model are you thinking about that's £650?
I don't think you have seen any recent BG guesstimates I use two Corgi plumbers for Landlord inspections etc, one of them cant stand doing quotes for boiler replacements so he tells everyone that rings him, to get BG in to give a written quote and I will quite possibly be able to do it for half their price, this is not London or indeed any large city. Problem with anyone asking the "how much" question on here is that without knowing *exactly* what is involved or whereabouts in the country they are, its all supposition.
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My 28i Junior cost nothing
Do you think I was overcharged ?
The graph of work versus price is not linear, and its not sm,ooth either.
When I was doing computer installations, we never got any work at all in the town we were based in. People thought of us as a 'local company'
Our biggest contracts were in Greece, and in the Channel islands, and we made good money in Scotland too.
Perception is everything in pricing.
As is your own attitude.
First of all you have to genuinely believe that your work and skills are worth £150 a day including the costs you have to bear, and if people don't value that, then they are not potential customers. £150 a day people don't come in driving beaten up 17 years old vans, in completely worn out jeans, bums amoon, with their toes poking out their boots either. They come in 7 year old vans, that are kept clean, and wear boots that are no more than two years old, and they wipe their feet on the doormat. They don't mumble and suck their teeth, they listen, ask relevant questions, and come up with professional quotes, preferably on paper.
Then they have to deliver what they promised to an acceptable standard and on time. People with money would rather pay £200 a day for someone who comes when they say they will, and finishes when they say they will, than someone who turns up for a day and half, leaves a job half done, comes back unannounced a week later, and only then charges them £100 a day. People without money are not people you want as customers. You are not a charity, and debt collection is expensive.
I might recommend a book to you: 'Winning through intimidation' by Robert J Ringer. Apart from being hilarious, its probably the best book on running a small business I have ever read. It works on the default assumption that everybody is dishonest, and that the best way to succeed is to be sharper than they are. And BE honest. Its the last thing they expect. Being dishonest, they can also be conned. Not fraudulently. By perception. You have to look like a trustworthy person, act like a trustworthy person, and be absolutely ready to whip out the contract and say 'sign here' the moment their good old boy 'let's shake on that' mood looks like sucking you into a situation where in reality you will do the whole job with no guarantee of getting paid at all.
'Don't you trust me?' I always say 'I don't want to have to trust you: I want a contract.' 'At that price I'll need a deposit.' If they wont play ball, walk away. They don't trust you, so you are going to get ripped off anyway.
Remember, you aren't selling time. You are selling solutions to peoples problems. It takes as much time to fix an O-ring on the space shuttle, as on a shower mixer. Its just that you can charge a half a billion to save a space shuttle, but Mrs Mopp next door won't do more than make you tea and biscuits.
So when you sell, sell a complete solution,. If you cant make good afterwards, sub to a skilled plaster and decorator, don't leave the customer having to sort that. Suddenly you are not a labourer, you are a project manager. They will be totally impressed that *all that work* got done without a hitch.
Always think what their alternatives are. Is there someone more expensive they could go to? pitch under his price, but only by a little. Is there a cheaper bloke? make sure your solution is more comprehensive, so it cannot be compared directly. Be bland about your pricing, assume that you are worth it, and you wont look furtive when quoting what is probably a cheap job.
Above all to quote Tom Lehrer 'specialise in diseases of the very rich' If you want to help out Mrs Mopp, make sure the job is underwritten by the gold plated bathroom you put in at HUGE margin for Mr Fat Cat with the Bentley. Its always better to charge a grand to put in ten grand of kit, than a grand to refurb a bathroom with 1500 of kit.
Wardrobe arranger, £450 per day - as seen on Peter Day's 'How much do we earn' a couple of days back!
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