tiling faqs

Hi,

As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling.

I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section?

I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps we could include:

Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room.

Rules of thumb about the space between tiles?

What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with

10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better?

I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for?

A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they better, and how to mix them?

Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood.

Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same batch to avoid variation in colour.

Here are a couple of questions that would really help me:

I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I do first, or doesn't it matter?

I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but...

If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones >10mm seen as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door?

Well, there's a few things to start with ;)

Reply to
Fred
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Well, the Romans did - but we are talking proper mosaics that formed a huge picture, rather than just a wibbly repeating pattern :)

2mm for 10cm tiles I find works.

300mm Floor tiles - less than you think - about 3-4mm at most. If the tile has bevelled edges, the grout joing becomes wider than the actual gap.

The notch size governs the final thickness of the bed - which ends up about

1/2 the notch depth assuming 50/50 square notches. Semi circles can be easier with heavy duty adhesive whilst maintaining a thinner bed. 1cm square notches or equiv semicircular usually works well for floors.

Combined is rubbish, except for minor repairs (tile fell off) where it is convenient.

"Class S2" is the magic specification for the most "flexible". Many self mix poweders can be made into flexible by using one of teh manufacturer's admix liquids. Or you can buy flex in powder ready to go, or even tub premixed, which is OK for wall work (eg onto ply panel).

Yes - or if you cannot, change batches on a wall junction where slight differences will be less noticeable.

Floor first is good. Grout the tiles to the plaster. Then take the wall tiles down to the floor tiles leaving a 4mm or so gap for silicone (or MS polymer) bead. If using tub adhesive for walls (which seems fine if the adhesive is good stuff, eg BAL) then wall tiling tends to be less messy than floor tiling - the worst part is the grouting but that's easily wiped off the floor during the wipe off/polishing stage.

Personally I always use power grouts even for walls as the grout is the first defence against water and unlike adhesive, it's easy to mix as you usually only need a large bowl full at time rather than by the bucket. I have hand mixed grouts with a stainless cooking bowl and woodlen spoon without issue.

Mixing a bucket of adhesive is better done with a power mixer on a drill.

BAL Greenstar IME has a nice "grab" whilst still alowing tweaking for a good few minutes.

New polished plaster should be scratched (or sponged whilst being plastered). If you have new plaster, run over with a steel wire brush to break teh glaze and coat with dilute SBR (or plaster sealer) - this is from BAL Greenstar's instructions. This really helps the adhesion and SBR will waterpoof the plaster to some extent too.

I use a simple drawing program - adopt a scale, make a scale outline of the walls, draw a tile to scale (including one grout line width top and right) then replicate a load and tweak until it looks right. This is an excellent way of laying out a pattern too.

If at least one corner was actually vertical, I would start with a full tile unless there is an aesthetic reason (patterns) not to. I always try to have a full tile on external edges, even if using tile edge strip - the bevelled edge makes for a better grout line in a highly visble zone.

Internal edges take cut edges just fine and grout nicely.

Grouting - get a good quality grout float (rubber) and tiler's sponge. Keep changing to fresh water in the bucket. Makes applying/cleaning/polishing so much easier.

There's loads more you can say - but that's all I can think ofright now - others will be along...

Reply to
Tim Watts

In a small kitchen, I deliberately chose smaller tiles (20cm sq), so you can see plenty of repeating pattern, and I think it makes the room look bigger. Conversely, in a really small kitchen, I have seen very large tiles used, and it made the room feel minute.

Note that laying a tile takes the same length of time regardless of size, so tiling a room in 20x20cm tiles will take over twice as long as tiling it in 30x30cm tiles.

That's a matter of style. Likewise, for choice of grout colour. You can use more than one grout colour too (I have with some wall tiles, when using a different colour dado rail tile).

I always use the powdered adhesive and (separate) powdered grout. I suspect the fast setting and ready-mixed are compromise products, but as I'm not paying for my time, that's a compromise I don't have to make.

I also add a waterproofing admix to the grout, certainly in a shower. (Can't remember if I did for the kitchen floor.) It's expensive, but a tiny bottle does loads of grouting.

There are also resin based grouts, generally used in food preparation areas (e.g. if you want a tiled worktop) because they are completely non-porous. Never used them myself though.

Yes, but regardless of what it says on the tin, they don't work directly on floorboards. Need to use a plywood base.

Mix packets in any case. Depends on how noticable any colour difference is going to show. Also, check carefully for any damaged ones. It annoys me that one of my bathroom tiles has a dent on the face (done before being glazed), and I didn't notice until it was all finished.

It depends how square the corner is (corners usually aren't very square). If you start with a whole tile in a corner, and as you work your way up, you find the gap growing, it's much harder to fix than if you are cutting all the edge tiles to fit anyway.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Something else I've been careful about - getting adjacent tiles level with each other. I've seen plenty of examples of professional tiling where that's not been done, and it really shows (to me anyway). You just need a short piece of wood (perhaps 1.5 tiles long) which you can lay on the tile as you tap it into the adhesive bed, so you can see when it's level with the next tile(s).

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

That is a matter of interior design and one thing about interior design is that if there are any rules they are there to be broken, under the right circumstance.

Colin Bignell

Reply to
Nightjar

Fit a levelled batten to the wall, with the top of the batten one tile up, and lay everything upwards from that. If you use tile spacers, having all rows level should follow from that. It also avoids tiling around the room and finding that the tiles don't meet at the same height. Once everything has set, remove the batten and finish off the bottom row.

Colin Bignell

Reply to
Nightjar

I think that by level Andrew means 'in the same plane as'. I've seen the same where each adjacent tile lines up with the ones next to it but such that any reflection in the tile is different in each tile. A bit like a true leaded-light window.

Reply to
Andrew May

One of those cases where the rotating spot laser levels are quite handy for setting out the battens.

Reply to
John Rumm

Yes good point. There used to be some pointers to external sites IIRC.

Sounds like a good plan. Drop me an email, and I will create you a wiki account ;-)

Its a design choice rather than a technical one generally. The bigger the tile, the flatter the walls need to be though.

Preference again, but 3mm is common on walls, and more (5 to 10mm) on floors. Tiles with a "waney" edge may well need more.

Bigger notches are probably more use on floors. Again a little depends on how much levelling you are needing to do.

It also tends to stick like grout and grout like glue! It does not have the "grab" of a good adhesive IME.

Powdered are often cement based, and hence will set even if wet. Ready mixed are usually acrylic and set by "drying out" - hence the problem of slow cure times on impervious backgrounds.

If mixing any quantity, then a flexibly trug type mixing bucket and a mixing paddle in a drill works well for upto 20 - 30kg at a time.

Yup. Line floorboards with 1/4 or 3/8th WBP ply first.

Indeed. If you cant do that, then mix up the batches before you start laying so the changes are spread around somewhat randomly.

Wall, that way you don't have to worry about making a mess on the floor or dropping a tile on it!

Take plenty of time marking everything out first and planning where things will end up.

What all the spare left over broken bits - na someone will notice!

Good layout is partly logic and partly art. Things like a half tile at one end can look ok, especially if you can use the other half to carry on the adjacent wall - then it looks like your tile goes round the corner. However you have to take care to check the walls a plumb. A half tile at one end, and then widening slip of a tile for half the wall height at the other would look far less attractive than a quarter wither end. When things are running out of square, its easier to eye up the error when lines that should be parallel are close to each other.

Reply to
John Rumm

I would describe that as flatness and is something I would judge by eye. Nevertheless, I hope my suggestion is useful to the faq.

Colin Bignell

Reply to
Nightjar

So...

Adhesive Grout Lithofin et al Tile size Tile spacing Substrate (choice & preparation) Layout styles (square, mosaic, gaudi, diagonal etc) Tile cutting - can just link to existing wiki article Quantity estimating Cost cutting (cement as adhesive, gaudi style, cleaning used tiles etc) Corners (plastic strip, round edged tiles, bare biscuit) Pros and cons of tiles

Its a lot to cover in one article, especially as there are multiple options for most of those headings. Covering any of it is all good stuff.

NT

Reply to
NT

I didn't recognise the term "bare biscuit" so Googled it - my education has been broadened but I don't see that it's got a lot to do with tiling !!

Reply to
Nospam

I dont know if this will be clear or not...

. ______________ . |______________ . | | . | | . | |

A corner arrangement like that leaves the biscut bare

NT

Reply to
NT
[about V-notch trowels]

To answer my own question, it seems they are used for mosaics:

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it is easier to make them V-shaped rather than square because at that small size the "teeth" of a square version might get bent out of alignment too easily?

There is also a trowel with 45 degree teeth:

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'm not quite sure what the advantage of that is?

[about half tiles]

I wasn't suggesting using the two leftover halves to fill a one tile space! Sorry for not making that clear. I was meaning that if a wall had to have a half tile at the end of a row, should I make sure that the half tile would be behind the door or behind the toilet, where it would be less visible?

Reply to
Fred

The biscuit is the piece of clay that the tile is made from. Usually it is a salmon colour. The front and sides of the tile are covered by the glaze but it is what you see when you look at the back of the tile. If you cut a tile, you remove the glazed edge and the biscuit becomes visible.

I think biscuit is French for twice cooked. I guess the clay is baked once to make a hard tile and then has the glaze applied and is baked a second time to set the glaze.

If you are tiling around a window recess or other external corner, you might use a trim to hide the edge of the tile.I think NT was suggesting that you might deliberately not use plastic trim and leave the biscuit exposed, hence "bare biscuit".

I typed it into google thinking you had found something naughty but all I found was talk about digestives, custard creams, etc.

HTH

Reply to
Fred

I think in their final days Focus were selling these for £5 but I never got around to buying one. I have got a non-rotating B&D one which is quite useful for this kind of thing. Does a rotating one have any advantage? I guess it does all four walls in one go?

Reply to
Fred

On 26/06/2012 20:54, Fred wrote: ... snipped

You must have a filter ... I searched for and the results were in the "very naughty" category

... but now I understand what was originally meant, as well as feeling slightly inadequate in other departments ;-(

Reply to
Nospam

Yup, that's basically it - you get a line round a whole room, and know the ends will join up. (also quite handy when working alone, since you don't need to point it at your target as you move about to set out)

Reply to
John Rumm

I would imagine its just to place smaller beads - which might make it easier to level very small (i.e. mosaic) tiles, where a conventional notched trowel could leave some completely unglued.

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> I'm not quite sure what the advantage of that is?

Means you cant stick down too shallow a bead by using a shallow angle on the trowel...

Tis ok, I was not being serious - it could be read as leaving all the offcuts piled up behind the loo! ;-)

Generally its a good idea not to place the ugly bits where you see them as you walk in the room (or for that matter while "contemplating" on the throne!)

Reply to
John Rumm

Its often a good idea to start tiling at the cenrte of a run, so you get the same size offcuts each end. Mirrors look better when the tiling behind them is symmetrical to the mirror. None of these things are hard fast rules, just see what looks best.

NT

Reply to
NT

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