Wasnt there a classic ridiculous example discussed on here a few years? ago? Some ludicrous ramp system to get a wheelchair from the street up a previously step ridden front garden/parking bay? All at public expense iirc...
I'd be grateful for any pointers to the relevant regs covering external steps from back doors (one conventional, one patio) into a garden. I've looked online but for some reason can't find exactly the information I'm after.
The drop involved is 24" / 600mm and the steps will be going onto a garden surface which currently is grassed but will eventually be paved, so there's a possibility that whatever steps are built now will eventually have to be replaced if they can't be removed, adapted and refitted.
There will be two separate sets of steps, the widest around 39" / 1m. These steps are from a recently-built rear extension and the work can't be signed off until they're done, so I need to know if (for example) side handrails and bannister-type railings are necessary, and also any standards regarding materials and strength.
Many thanks.
over 600mm change in level you need a landing regardless of the door opening in .....over 600mm you need a balustrade on the landing and a handrail to the stair ....well that is how it was 10 years ago in Scotland but things might be sillier these days ......
Thanks for that. The drop from my two doors is pretty much exactly 600mm but I was imagining the first step to be below that rather than level with it. The back door opens outwards, the patio door sideways (of course) which might also affect things, I suppose.
usually works out we accepted a max of four steps at a push with no landing.......whether there was a slip step or not it should be measured from floor level to average ground level .......the door can't open over steps....wife is still listening to your Shelrock holmes when out mowing the lawn .......thanks for keeping her quiet for me....tee hee
Ah, I didn't realise that: it will definitely make a difference to the design, either of the steps now or the patio later. Is there a minimum allowable depth to an outside landing?
Regarding your wife, you're very welcome.
But if you have a `landing`and then the steps can the door open out over the landing. This was the case 25 years ago when my house was built, builder put a wooden landing in from utility to garage, after building passed it he took the landing away and left the steps. (Scotland)
Building regs approved document K has chapter and verse on steps:
Thanks for that link, John.
I'm not sure there's enough space available immediately outside the back door to accommodate both a landing and some steps. And a landing on its own, though it would probably prove an interesting talking point, would be of limited practical value. As an extreme solution I might have to investigate rehanging the door.
Most people seem now to be building ramps not steps, I guess it is probably due to them all getting on in years and may end up in a wheelchair. Brian
My sense of balance is sometimes a little shaky. I actually find it more awkward (and occasionally distinctly unsettling) to walk up and down a ramp than to negotiate steps.
But for outdoors, where someone does not use a wheelchair, steps are usually a lot safer, especially in icy weather. Ramps also take up a lot of space.
I feel that in most cases, it would be better not to generally provide level access, ramps and other disabled friendly items, but to give 100% grants for specific changes needed in each home, as and when required - even for houses where disabled people only visit occassionally - thus not burdening people with unneccessary designs that they do not want, while providing exactly what they need, if required.
SteveW
Yes. My wife suffers from balance problems - a legacy of preganancy hormones affecting brain's processing of visual and inner ear balance signals. Apparently the signals arrive at different times and the brain correct for the lag of the visual signals, but in her case, the correction has been affected.
She struggles enough with steps - especially going downwards - and has to take it slow and hang onto the handrail. On ramps that's not enough and she hangs on to me as well.
SteveW
A sensible approach. The level-access / ramp requirement is presumably a result of the all too common attitude that "disabled" means "in a wheelchair". This does seem to be changing now, with "Not all disabilities are visible" signs beginning to appear in various places, but as yet the change doesn't appear to have percolated through to the building regs.
Walking through a recently-built estate near me, I was noticing that many, but not all, the houses appeared to have level access to their front doors. One than had a ramp for several metres, at which point there was 90 degree turn with a set of steps. ??
Chris
Absolutely.
MOST disabled people in wheelchairs can manage a lot more 'step' than the regs assume.
Each disability is different and special and wheelchairs are only one aspect.
Could the steps go off to the side from the landing?
Cheers
That seems clear - but how does the Lowry Mall get away with this?
Which is actually one of the problems, as that means a very long ramp, taking up much of a small garden or losing parking space.
We have a nice ramp in our local town centre, providing access to a bank.
The pavement is about 10' wide and instead of providing steps directly out of the door, with a ramp running at 90° to them along the front of the bank or putting the entire ramp inside the bank (there is plenty of room), the entire pavement is ramped up and down. There is already a slight slope to the road, due to it rising to cross a railway line. The end result is that in winter, unless the pavement is gritted, many elderly people have to go out of their way to avoid using this section of pavement for fear of slipping and falling.
Even worse is that it was done on the grounds of equality. It was deemed no longer reasonable to require people with disabilities to use the back door of the bank, where there was already both a ramp and steps - despite many able-bodied customers (myself included) preferring to use the back door, as it had direct access from a car-park, while there was no parking at the front!
SteveW
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