Stepped crack in brick exterior wall 1930's house

above.

courses,

investigation

worrying

Really cant add anything more re the advice given, but I can put some perspective on it: numerous old houses have cracks like this, and in

99% of cases the situation is very minor.

Put it this way, if you owned already it would not be cause to get a struc eng in, the logical action would be repoint and observe, and only if it recracks would expert advice be needed.

And in terms of risk of falling down, it isnt. But these things do scare buyers and lenders.

NT

Reply to
bigcat
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It is a repossession, so the vendors in this case are not the previous occupyers, I'd imagine (but could be wrong) that they would not be prepared to get such work done in this circumstance?

Reply to
Velvet

Indeed I don't - the question is that it seems like a really good house

*apart* from what may or may not be a problem with the crack.

If I get it investigated fully then I'm in the position of having spent a LOT of money to find that it either is or isn't a problem. If it isn't, then great - I've got a stunning house that I really like. If it is a problem, then I've just blown many hundreds of pounds and have nothing to show for it, and am then going to have to find more money for subsequent survey(s) on other properties etc.

That is my quandry, and I'm after some advice as to how serious the problem sounds, whether, as a cautious first time buyer I'm worrying more than I should about this, or am right to be concerned!

I have photos but not the ability to upload them to the web till tonight. I'll post links to them once they're online, since a picture speaks a thousand words and all that.

Reply to
Velvet

Thanks, that's the sort of advice I was looking for - well aware you lot haven't seen it, may or may not be able to offer any advice anyway, just wanted to bounce the problem and ideas around people that may have done this before!

The advice for the structural vs survey and me vs mortgage is good advice - a pitfall I may have fallen into by thinking they would know a better structural engineering company than me (I'd be taking pot luck).

Agree re the tag-along, I'd almost certainly do that because I do understand how structures work and stresses and engineering type stuff quite well but not to the extent that I can make judgement calls (principles but no experience!).

Reply to
Velvet

Oh, absolutely not. This house seems to have a lot going for it, which is why I've not already walked away.

And no, I don't expect a mortgage co to loan me without getting an inspection - but, the way I read it is that if they don't see it as a problem and then it turns out that it is, that's not their problem but mine, and it'll be me solely responsible for footing the cost of the repairs.

Bit of pointing, not a problem. Underpinning, way out of my capabilities to finance.

Thanks for the info on the verbal from structural, this is sounding like the best way to go with it - I have no objections to paying out

100-150 quid or so for a strutural engineer to take a look, and I wouldn't require a written report if I am present to discuss it and talk it through. Doing that would mean I know that much earlier if the crack is walk-away or not-a-problem, and I'm willing to then go ahead with the cost of the homebuyers etc for the rest of the place.
Reply to
Velvet

Yep, the place I rent at the moment (which is considerably more than the mortgage) is much older, and I'm well used to living in a place that has lots of cracks internally in the plasterboard, not-completely-adequate floor support (I'm the first floor of a two-floor converted stables/coach-house from the 1870/1880's), and some really quite large (2cm) cracks in the external that suggest the re-roofing may have placed additional load on the roof which is slowly splaying the walls, and one place where the corner brick pillar has been damaged by faulty guttering and badly damaged by water as well as the additional load from the roof bearing on it!

If I already owned this place I would wait and see what the crack did, but I don't feel confident that I can go ahead and place myself in that situation without knowing the behaviour of it.

I'd have had no qualms about buying my current place before the re-roofing, because the cracks were present but not opening. Since the re-roofing, they are slowly growing and on a week by week basis this isn't noticeable but over the 12 years I've been there I know how they act, and the last 7 they have opened up and are still opening. No way I'd buy it now without a full structural, and I have a feeling that would come back with requirements to have a LOT of work done, including a reroof with lighter weight tiles!

Reply to
Velvet

In message , "[news]" writes

With this advice, first time buyers would never buy a house - not even a new one!!

Reply to
Richard Faulkner

are you suggesting that all houses have cracks in the front wall ?

don't you think a 1st time buyer would be better off at least looking for a house without cracks in it ?

judging from the photo posted just now I would suggest that the only way to repair and disguise the fact that a repair had been effected would be to render the front elevation or repoint the whole front and with those textured bricks, repointing will leave it looking messy at best unless the OP did it themselves and mixed the mortar perfectly each time or pays someone upwards of £40 m/2 to do the same.

personally, if it was me, I'd look for a house without cracks in the front elevation. they do exist, I've seen em.

RT

Reply to
[news]

I'd be quite prepared to mix and repoint myself, no it'd not be a perfect match, but from what I've read on this sort of thing repointing if the crack is moving is a bad move as it could cause it to open further (mortar stops it closing if it's a cyclical opening/closing due to thermal/groundwater cause) etc.

It needs repointing to stop water getting in. If the crack isn't on the move then that's fine. Rendering the whole front would be a shame given the textured bricks. All the pointing apart from this crack is sound and in good condition.

There are houses without cracks in the front, but I am limited to a select few areas by salary multiples and stupidly high house prices. Lucky enough that my job is flexible enough to permit me to live in this particular area (well connected to major roads and reasonably central in one plane to the area I work).

Property market is such that I can't afford a non-leasehold place (and often not even them) in almost all of the southeast, hence looking at older properties of this sort of age, with bigger floorspace than the modern shoeboxes. Compromises are being made on a lot of things, and I see no reason to dismiss this place out of hand because it has a crack in it, given the age, if the crack isn't actually anythign to worry about overly.

If it's purely small movement that occurred some time ago, and it's not ongoing, then it's more cosmetic than anything else, and I'm not bothered by that in the slightest. The place I'm looking for is tattier than most, needing internal redec, with a working GCH system, functional kitchen/bathroom that's not more than a couple of decades old. I can't afford, and don't want, a perfect property in perfect decorative order with an immaculate garden because a) that's boring, and b) as I said, I can't afford them.

Most of the other houses I've found are victorian terraces which have a whole gamut of other potential problems, aren't as suitable with their steep narrow staircases for parents that are now getting on in years for visiting (would be living >100 miles from them, so do intend they come stay, and would prefer they don't break necks each time!). Other semi's require vast amounts of updating to be in my price range (no GCH, antique but not in pleasing way kitchen/bathroom etc) and are also smaller in terms of sheer floor space in rooms.

If it weren't for the fact that this one is right in so many ways I would have discounted it by now, as it is, it is right in all ways but this one niggle.

Reply to
Velvet

Do you know why this house was built differently from the others? Was there something else on the site, did the previous house fall into a large hole? There was bombing in Rushden during WWII - are you sure that the house is pre-war?

Reply to
Rob Morley

Remember the mortgage lender will be effectively owning the house until the loan is repaid. That being the case, they should be just as interested in making sure the survey is carried out thoroughly and accurately.

Reply to
RedOnRed

Buy the house, watch the crack for a year. If it moves then maybe repoint at the time of year that it's at its narrowest. I think if you scrape out the old mortar, mix it with some lime putty and stick it back in that it would blend well after a while, but someone will probably be along in a minute to tell me it's a stupid idea.

Reply to
Rob Morley

In message , RedOnRed wrote

The person who takes out the loan is responsible for repaying it. If the house subsequently sells for less than the amount outstanding the borrower will still owe money. With interest payments and a falling market, if a person defaults on a mortgage the amount owed could be much more than the property is worth.

The survey that banks/building societies carry out are to make sure that the property is not overvalued i.e. you are not attempting to borrow £400,000 on something worth £200,000. They probably also take into account the amount that they could get back from the insurance that they insist that the borrower takes out.

Reply to
Alan

you'd get a great key

as I and others have advised you can either walk away or get a full survey done with particular instruction from you to the surveyor regarding the crack and their professional indemnity insurance should their advice be misleading and you find yourself having to sue them. as you are aware, it all costs money but you seem clued up enough about the crack to make a decision either way.

great fun this house buying lark, innit ;-)

RT

Reply to
[news]

There are a variety of styles throughout the whole street. The majority are 2/3 bed semi's with rounded bow-window fronts, but variety of porch styles between them. A couple are roofed differently, there's a couple of this style (by a couple I mean 2 sets of a semi-detatched pair) - it just seems to be variation for the sake of variation. Some are spaced far enough apart to allow for very narrow access to a garage at rear of house, but not wide enough for even a small modern car. Almost all have no off-street parking.

It has to be said that at first glance these appear 'boxy' and 'hard' compared to the bow-fronted ones, I can see how they might be less attractive to buyers when as bare as this one is, but all they need is softening with a clematis rambling up trellis on a wall, and some sympathetic planting in the front garden instead of the rectangular path, rectangular patch of grass, rectangular wall standing isolated etc etc.

Lack of render is a positive in my case - I'd much rather not have the hassle of painting rendering, and the brick is attractive in it's own right. Plus, I've seen rendering on my parents place (pre-war) and it's a never ending struggle against cracks and bits falling off corners!

All the info that I can find suggest it's 1930's - floorboards to the downstairs not concrete floor etc, though the pantry and understairs is concrete or tiled to the floor and a slightly lower level. Obviously I've not pulled a board up - there are carpets down so had to be fairly careful in what and how far I pulled them up to establish condition of floor around the front wall/rads/corners when checking for signs of damp etc.

Being a repo property though means I do have the ability to at least take a corner of carpet up etc, and poke around a bit deeper than with owners hovering - I want to know what I'm buying, not that what I'm buying looks immaculate on the surface.

Reply to
Velvet

You'll have guessed by now that I'm really loathe to walk away from it :-)

I think I'm going to have to go with getting an engineer to look at it. Whether that's an hour or two for verbal advice whilst looking at it, or biting the bullet and having a HBS with SSI into the crack I'm not sure yet. More mulling over needed.

I've read and digested an entire textbook on building defects this weekend to better arm myself with background and understanding on foundations and movement and possible causes of it, and as a bonus now got a good understanding of wall, floor, inernal walls, roof, drain construction etc and all the things that can go wrong. Not to mention damp, condensation, DPC methods, etc!

Head reeling a little bit but I feel it's going to be worth it if only for being better armed with what to look out for in other properties if this one doesn't go through or I walk away from it - finding house buying very very interesting, yes - exciting yet worrying, but I've always wanted to know how things work/are built (probably another reason why I'd rather investigate than dismiss) - pays dividends later when you want to do something/change something/fix something :-)

Many thanks for all the help from you lot, it's much appreicated.

Reply to
Velvet

mull this: when I first started out I made an appointment with a series of surveyors (three I think) all a few hours apart on the same day at a house I was thinking of buying.

I told them all I was a complete novice and threw some daft questions at them and buried a few serious ones in amongst them. all three were happy to wax lyrical about their subject and show off their superior knowledge to a total newbie. I got quite a few questions in before saying I'd let them know as to if I'd be instructing them and told them I hadn't decided to go ahead with the purchase. I think all three cottoned on but only one of them was bold enough to issue an invoice which was subsequently ignored :D

I think if you have a bumpy jumper you'll do even better ;-) good luck.

RT

Reply to
[news]

It might be stating the obvious but the decision you make will have consequences for many years which is why you have to look at the whole process in as an objective a way as possible. This is not easy to do as many people know. Nevertheless, it will be one of the biggest financial transactions you will ever make. If it does turn out to be a serious problem then the consequences can blight your life for years. Any property that has signs of subsidence, or has been underpinned, will be very hard, and often impossible, to insure. Even if the work has been done competently insurers will just refuse to quote, and once you have had a refusal you must disclose this and then no other insurer will do so either. How do I know? Well my house was underpinned fifteen years ago and has shown no sign of any further problem, but even the insurer who specified, and paid for, the work will not cover it. That is why you should walk away now.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

Another vote for this course of action: as I've wittered at length previously, we had a surveyor on a place 20? years back whose verbal report saved us a very expensive mistake; dealing with young second-time buyers meant he was perfickly happy to take a small fee for a verbal report rather'n write it all down.

Stefek

Reply to
Stefek Zaba

A cautionary tale ...

In the late 1980s I suffered a chronic attack of the nesting instinct and I needed a home of my own. By 1989 I had got myself a job where I could just about afford a mortgage - just as the property boom came to an end

One year after I bought my house, interest rates were 14.5% AND a house down the road with a larger garden was sold for 15% less than I had paid for mine

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|

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Reply to
Anna Kettle

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