Standard or "Superduty" hot water cylinder?

You really need to read the claims he's made over the years in his various guises. And not one ever substantiated.

He claims to be a heating engineer with a university degree. But by the number of basic gaffs couldn't possibly be.

Best bet is a plumbing merchant's counter assistant with an extensive knowledge of product. But not a clue about how to specify or install. And a good memory for all the snippets he hears from customers.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)
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I put an in-line heater top get a boost on a combi? No ways? I did? Only a uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) member would do that.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

I am an amateur? No ways? Me? Full pro me boy. uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) members can be dangerous. Best not to take any notice of them. Is you membership up soon?

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

This is hilarious. Only from a uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) member. This one didn't know the difference between high and low pressure taps. He bought high pressure taps for his sink (cut the tap tails short as well) then wondered why he was only getting a dribble out of the taps. He posted here asking why. Anyone with sense would go out and buy a proper set of low pressure taps and fit them. Not this one...wait...in the current thread "Hot Water Woes"...this is what he wrote.....

"I had the same problem after installing a high pressure only 'mixer' tap in the kitchen - I couldn't find a low pressure one I liked. I installed the pump under the sink. Works a treat."

He put a pump under the sink to get the pressure up on the mixer instead of changing the mixer taps. Hilarious...hilarious. The best yet. I've never heard that one. Only from a uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) member. Yes, you read this sort of thing here. Good for a laugh indeed.

The problem is a novice might believe all this and take the advice. That is the serious and dangerous part.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Tap. The low pressure hot water. A dribble rather similar to a combi such as yours. I'm used to a high flow storage system.

And you've just confirmed your lack of any skills if you can't cut a thread made of brass. Of course we knew that after your incident with the plastic pipe and hacksaw. Perhaps you could go to night school and learn some basic skills?

Which part of 'couldn't find a low pressure one I liked' don't you understand? I know your comprehension of English is poor, but it's a pretty simple statement. Those with taste will buy things that look good and if it means some modification, so what? It's low rent semi skilled plumbers that *only* fit what is easy. Hence your love of combis and system boilers.

Glad to oblige. Your life is obviously sad if this amuses you.

It's 'serious and dangerous' to repalce a kitchen tap? Now I know you're barking...

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Yep, the low pressure hot water which you put a high pressure mixer on not knowing any different. It must have took him all day to do that as well.

Then it became a dribble flow as you put high pressure taps on a low pressure system. Hilarious.

Taste? You have a taste for pumps. Pumps to get one tap work. Like the in vogue colours of these pumps? Flash switches?

So that is your pathetic excuse for not knowing the difference. Hilarious. Then he puts a pump on it........yes, a pump for one tap. ROFLMAO

Meandering again. A combi has no relation whatsoever to him fitting high pressure taps on a low pressure system....then fitting pump to get the water though. This is good.

You never fail.

Anyone who know the least about plumbing will laugh their arses off.

With a pump to get it to work!!!!!!!! Best yet, Hilarious!!!! But he never serviced his boiler for 12 years and tells people to do the same. This is the dangerous part about these people. We can laugh at the stupid things they do, like this tap case, but it is the dangerous part of them which is alarming.

They do make us all larf.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

I've always wondered by how much though. The only difference I can see is the boiler water output temp will be hgher during a brief full power burst than it will be in modulation. Modulation will improve efficiency, but not by much afaics. A difference of perhaps 30C out of a flame temp of 10s of times that doesnt look like it would amount to much, a few percent maybe.

Would 1960s be about the right guess for a cylinder that manages all of

2kW throughput?

NT

Reply to
meow2222

A set rate burner designed for maximum efficiency is more efficient that a modulation burner. A compromise is reached with modulation, although the more expensive burners are more efficient when modulating.

A small cylinder coil ensures a high return temperature reducing condensing efficiency, and promoting inefficient boiler cycling. A large cylinder coil does the reverse. A large cylinder coil takes more kW reducing the size of the cylinder, as rapid re-heats are ensured. Less DHW stored buffer space is needed.

To get the best efficiency:

- The boiler needs to be 20kW and above, more like 25-30kW,

- The cylinder coil must take all the boilers output

- The boiler has a set rate burner

- The cylinder has two cylinder stats to prevent boiler cycling.

Yep. Some cowboy makers had 1" coils with few turns.

You could make your own quick recovery cylinder quite cheaply. Buy a standard direct cylinder, without a coil. That is cheap. Get a bronze pump, a plate heat exchanger and two cylinder stats, a relay and a plastic electrical wall box.

The boiler pumps into the plate heat exchanger as if it is pumping into a coil. The bronze pump pumps water out of the bottom of the cylinder and through the plate. The two cylinder stats prevent boiler cycling (the relay is needed for this to work). The total cost will be less than an off the shelf similar sized Albion with a coil. With the plate the efficiency will be much higher as the plate is far more efficient than the coil. The cylinder size can be vastly reduced. The heat extracted from the boiler is far more than a coil giving a very low return temperature promoting efficiency.

If there is excellent mains flow and pressure it is quite easy to do similar and make a directly heated heat bank. No bronze pump needed then.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

A pump for one tap? ROFL Classic!!!!

Reply to
timegoesby

The message from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Dribble resides in my killfile but from the reposts I have seen I thought that (ie 40% energy saving) was precisely what Dribble was claiming.

Reply to
Roger

The other big loss is that each time you cycle the boiler off, you can end up blowing most of the primary heat exchanger's stored heat out of the flue. With the next on cycle this will need to be reheated. Obviously this is more of an issue with an old cast iron lump with high thermal inertia, than a modern light weight design. How the pump control is configured also has a bearing. Worst case being one that simply stops at the end of the burn leaving the HE "hot".

Could be, sounds a bit low even so. Many convection circulation systems can do better than that.

Reply to
John Rumm

I'd be interested to know your solution to the problem - quite seriously. I thought long and hard about the alternatives. If you need more information I'll willingly provide it.

BTW, this applies to dribble too.

Oh - and it must cost approximately the same - or less - as my solution and take no longer, labour wise.

There you are - a chance for the pair of you to put your money where your mouth is.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Strange then how my arse seems to know more about the subject that someone like you who claims to be a "pro".

Go have a look into the effects of adding additional energy storage terms into control equations. In particular how it effects the order of the response of the system as a whole, and what the implications may be in (for example) changing a first order response system into a second order one, and yet still retaining the original control loop. Then you may begin to understand.

To the OP, you are probably getting the picture that Dribble here has delusions of competance, in spite of being little more than an obnoxious gob on a stick. A bit of reading on google groups will lay bare the whole sorry mess assuming you can find some of his posts that are not totally content free.

Reply to
John Rumm

He always claims some theoretical maximum as the norm when 'selling' his ideas. He lives in a world where 100% efficiency may be exceeded.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Get the right taps in the first place. If they are wrong then put the right taps in, not put a pump in for one tap. That is how 99.99% of humanity would have done it.

Thought? That figures. That is how you came up with a pump on one tap. ROFLMAO

Enough is enough. I can't handle any more my sides are splitting. ROFLMAO

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Tell that to Viessmann and all the other condensing boiler world. I'll let you know...Viessmann do not put a pump on each tap. ROFLMAO.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Some people spend much of their life being laughed at, so I guess any oportunity to return the favour is eagerly taken.

Its easy to criticise something without knowing the details and why it was done. Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

hadnt thought of that

Well, least it works. The rest of it looks 60s too.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

As I thought. No answer to the problem. Have you done a search to find out what styles of low pressure mixers are available?

Then I'm happy to be near unique.

[snip the usual boring rest]
Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

You've just confirmed yet again you don't understand the meaning of efficiency.

The Viessmann site is intended for professionals since they don't sell direct so I suppose it's understandable if you can't comprehend their figures. However, they're easily explained. They talk about *standard efficiency* (note it's two words) of 107% which is far too complicated for you to understand, but is merely used as a comparison between boilers.

They also quote the actual or gross efficiency as being between 96 to 98% with the best condensing boilers

Efficiency is the measurment of energy input to energy output and as any schoolboy will tell you cannot exceed 100%. Did you not go to school?

You might find this article on the Viessmann site of interest since it explains how condensing boilers work and their efficiency.

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Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

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