Spammed by Screwfix?

[Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)]

For those DIYers who buy from Screwfix:

You might like to be aware of their spam policy, which I have found out to my cost. I am intending to issue legal action for recovery of my invoice amount.

After the first spam incident, I wrote to them pointing out that I had not authorised their sending of junkmail and that although no charge would be made this time, any future use (by them) of my storage would be charged out at £50 plus VAT per incident. Then they spammed me again which is why I issued an invoice. Subsequently I have been chasing payment.......

I received the following letter:

3 December 2003

I write following your telephone calls chasing the payment of your speculative invoice. Although we are not obliged at all to your invoice, statement of account or telephone calls, given your persistence with this matter, I am writing to finally confirm that we will not be making any payment to you.

There has been no breach by us of any legislation in force at the time that the marketing emails were sent and you are now suppressed on our database so no further marketing emails will be sent to you.

Although we are under a duty to to process "opt-out" requests reasonably promptly, we are not required to immediately suppress a customer's email details, and indeed it would be unreasonable to be so required.. As we use a third party mailing house to deal with our email marketing campaigns, there naturally will be some emails which are sent during the period between the opt-out request being received by us and it being processed.

I gather that you have mentioned the new legislation which comes into force on 11 December 2003 although I am puzzled how this will bolster your case given that it is not retrospective. Even once the new legislation is in force, we will continue to send email marketing to our customers without their explicit prior consent ('opt-in'). The new regime allows us to send marketing emails which relate to the same or similar products to those purchased (i.e. in the case of Screfix Direct, our entire range) so long as we offer a no-cost opportunity to 'opt-out' from receiving future e-mailings. In any event the new legislation relates only to personal (not business) email addresses, and your business' email address would therefore not be afforded the new protection.

I trust that this now puts an end to this matter, and would request that you cease from any further chasing for payment of your invoice. However, you are, of course free to seek legal advice regarding your complaint and if you feel minded to issue legal proceedings, as you have threatened, please ensure they are served on us at our registered office address below, marked for my attention.

Yours sincerely

Richard MacNamara Company Secretary

HO reception [phone]

I am committed to the Boulder Pledge, which states that I will not buy anything from a spammer. Sad really, because they have a good range.

[Grunff]

Hmmm...

I'm generally very spam intolerant, but I don't think screwfix are in the wrong here.

The mere fact that they bothered to reply to you is indicative of their overall superb customer service.

By the way, did you get their permission before publishing that letter here?

[Lee Blaver]

I know it's a question of semantics, but is it really spam if someone to whom you have freely given your email adress and possibly purchased from, then sends you adverts? I don't consider this the same thing as the normal sort of spam, which is a real problem.

I've snipped the adverts from the orignal post...

Lee

[Michael McNeil]

First off:

The letter belongs to whomsoever it was sent to. The recipient can do what he wishes with it.

In this country it is illegal to hold information about anyone on computer without the person's knowledge. I am not sure it is a matter of gaining consent though.

No one is allowed to send spam in the name of good service surely? What exactly are the laws of this land on that; anyone know?

[Huge]

I do. Spam is spam. Spam is theft. Spam is more noise added to the already terrible email signal/noise ratio.

Fortunately, they spam from a specific address, different to the one the order confirmations come from, so the first time it happened, I merely added them to my reject list.

[Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)]

a) The "Do not spam me" button on the wevsite was selected.

b) They spammed me anyway.

c) They were told again not to and that I would look to recover my costs of reporting them to their upstream, clearing the crap from my system and incorporating spamblocked.com filtering etc in the event of a repeat.

d) They ignored me and spammed me again.

Indicative only of the fact that I told them I was intending to issue legal action. As you saw, they also believe that it is perfectly reasonable to continue to spam regardless.

They have been warned that any communications will be used in whatever manner I choose, including publishing in the newspapers if need be. So far the local paper has taken an interest, although I intend to offer the story to a national too. I need to find out how that may affect a court case first though. It should make an interesting test case!

[TonyK]

Why disclose your email address anyway?

[David Hearn]

therefore not be afforded the new protection.

received emails from them about their products. You requested to be removed from their list, which they did, however emails still got through before your request was processed (by a 3rd party).

You also were referring to legislation which has not come into effect yet (which excludes emails to business email accounts which are still unregulated)

Their letter has actually raised my impression of Screwfix as they obviously take customer comments seriously and have acted responsibly in my opinion.

Incidentally, with letters, the contents (ie. words) of the letter are copyright of the author. The medium on which they are written (eg. paper) can be sold but not republished without permission of the author. Therefore, copy/pasting an email/letter into a newsgroup posting without permission of the author isn't right. Any disputes, do a search on newsgroups for "legal publish letter" and see what comes up.

D

[David Hearn]

I fail to see how warning someone that their reply will be published, yet requiring a reply is fair. They have not expressly given their permission for publishing of the mail. Had they not replied, you would then get annoyed at them for that!

D

[Mike P]

YOU buy from Screwfix and you don't want to know what new products or price reductions they have to offer you?

Very strange!

Why not just add it to your Block List?

I'm with Screwfix on this one.

Mike P.

[Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)]

It was a "refer a friend" on their website. Luckily I always use a unique address for this sort of thing so that I can track any untoward use. My mail is filtered by spamblocked.com too, so it is easy to get junk stopped at the router.

[Tony Bryer]

I'm with you here. But if the OP decides that he never wants to deal with Screwfix ever again then a proverb about noses and cutting comes to mind.

[Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)]

No I haven't. I specifically said they should NOT spam me.

I pointed out their transgression and gave them the opportunity to remedy it.

Not my problem. There were three weeks between my letter and their subsequent spam.

That came from a comment in my telephone call to them about what they intend to do once the new legislation is brought in. You can see that it will not make the slightest difference to them. I am sick of having to spend time sorting out my genuine customer emails from junk that I have not asked for, and indeed have specifically rejected. Reputable companies do not spam. Those who spam me, lose my business, it's as simple as that.

[Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)]

They were told specifically NOT to spam me. They then did it twice, despite my warning. Pot, kettle, black?

[Alan James]

Disagree, as they threaten that a previous interest in a particular product is a green light to email about ANY of their products. IMHO that is going too far. I opted out a few days ago when the MD emailed that there were some new sockets in stock and then another email followed not long afterwards. Don't know whether I am in practice opted-out or not but when I checked my account I still have the opt-in box ticked, something I am not sure I ever selected. Without necessarily agreening with the OP, the Screwfix letter is too cavalier for my liking.

Alan

[Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)]

The fact that they have been trusted my email address does not give them the right to ignore my instructions NOT to spam me. If they can't offer me this simple courtesy, I have no wish to use their service anymore.

[Grunff]

But would you stop using them just because it took them a few weeks to opt you out?

I have a very tough policy for dealing with suppliers - if they piss me off, even once, they go on my blacklist. Life's too short.

But if I used possible spam as a selection criterion, my list would grow very quickly and I'd soon run out of suppliers.

As for your assertion that 'spam is spam' - do you really mean that? Is an email from screwfix, whom you've ordered from in the past and are currently on their customer db, the same as spam from some company you've never heard of offering to increase your site traffic by 500%, or to enlarge your member by a similar percentage? To me they are quite different.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Your knowlege of copyright is sadly lacking.

Your knowlege of the Data Protection Act is similarly lacking.

No.

Yes, but they change in a few days time.

[Mike P]

AJL put in his post:

Ang about, aren't these a form SPAMS?

Aren't you advertising your business?

Mike P.

[Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)]

That was not the complaint. The complaint was that they spammed me twice in defiance of my original instruction not to do so. Evan after the first time they spammed me, I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

So do I, it's called the Boulder Pledge.

Disagree. Most reputable companies wouldn't dream of behaving like that.

Spam is theft, spam is spam.

And have specifically told they do not have my permission to spam me.

Is it unsolicited?

Is it bulk or commercial?

Is it email?

Then it is UBE / UCE aka spam. Have you any idea what the spam load would be like if just one mailing was sent out by each business in just one country? Would you be happy to be deluged by that?