I dont understand that. Wall warts would have no effect on the use of smaller plugs as well as the present standard.
The way I see the size question is we dont to see want a long row of sockets on teh wall, but we do want more sockets to use nowadays. Fitting 6 sockets in the space of 1 double would solve that, and since both systems would be fully compatible, it would not affect the use of present plugs in those sockets, they would be usde as now at the same density as now. And the new plugs would fit the present old sockets too, so there would be no compatibility problem.
If you are maintaining compatibility, then you will need the same pin layout and spacing. So yes you could put them closer together (especially if you oriented each rotated 180 degrees), you could make the plugs skinny, triangular, and have the cord exit from the top (i.e. US style) rather than the edge. You could squeeze four (maybe even as many as eight) into the space of a current double socket. However if you plug an exiting design wall wart into one you would probably obscure four sockets in one hit.
"Jeff Sheard" wrote | This is a bit of an electrical design question. I'm rewiring | my house, and want to provide a decent amount of sockets | for appliances in the living room, for now and for the | foreseeable future. This room is about 12 metres square, | i.e. not that big. It's also roughly square in shape. ... | 2x lamps
You might want to put 5A round-pin sockets in for the lamps, wired to the wall switches on the lighting circuit. Means you don't have to walk round the room in the dark switching the table lamps on/off.
I'd work on roughly a (double) socket 2-3' each side of a corner and then fill in the gaps so no more than about 6' without a socket. Although some people find them visually intrusive, it can be handy to have some sockets high enough that they are not hidden behind sideboards etc, for portable appliances.
Why not just use the superior continental plug/sockets ? Not sure how they stand under part P but they cannot actually be banned here as they are the approved IEC socket, not our oversized Swedish-reject monstrosity.
UK domestic (and light-commercial) wiring practice relies heavily on fuses in each plug to protect the flex: where Yurrip and the You Ess go for a larger number of radials with 16A or 20A breakers, the large majority of our premisesesis wired with 30A/32A rings. So we cannae swap to unfused plugtops without a massive program of rewiring, or weird ideas like fuses in each socket - which again would be Different from Continental practice.
'Snot as if the Continentals are all uniformly standardised, either...
Yup. I've got 11 doubles in a through lounge and none are in regular use. Table lamps are on dedicated 2 amp outlets fed from dimmers, and the Hi-Fi/TV on a dedicated radial circuit with its own earth. But I'm ok for hoovering 'plugs' :-)
yes, 6, a lot more useful, lower cost and looks better.
Thats right, but its not a problem as you appear to think. Wall warts plug in at the same space density as today, nothing is lost, 2 per double socket. Todays plugs will also continue to be used, the new ones do not obsolete the old.
But those appliances that will be on the newer plugs achieve much higher density, 3x. In any house there will be a mixture of the 2 plug types, and where old sockets are replaced with new, houses will suddenly be able to plug around twice as many things into the sockets, without needing to add any spurs.
This what Britain needs. It will:
- reduce the use of adaptors, improving safety and cost
- reduce the cost of mains plugs on some new appliances
- reduce the cost of house wiring a bit
- provide householders with twice as many sockets as now
- reduce material and energy use in manufacturing our present inefficient mains plugs.
And there will be no compatibility problem. Appliances with new plugs plug into the existing sockets. The new sockets will all accept both types of plug.
The trouble is I'm too busy with other things to do much with this.
NO ! All IEC plugs automatically have approval. No signatory government can legislate against them or otherwise preclude their use. If you wish to use them you can.
Changing over to these was discussed for several years in mid 90s but for some reason came to nowt.
Lower cost perhaps, not sure that a huge bundle of 6 flexes protruding from a wall outlet will necessarily look better.
Yes, but indirectly... rewiring houses for modern usage would reduce the use of adaptors etc. This would be true regardless of the socket type.
Can't think why... also who cares, they are negligable cost as they are.
Again not significant. 80% or more of the cost of wiring is going to be labour. You are still going to need to fit alomst as many face plates as before so as to position outlets close to where they will be needed.
As would a rewire, which would probably be required to safely support the doubling number of sockets in many cases...
Yup, give you that one.. just. ;-)
The trouble is, I would guess, most folks don't feel strongly enough about it one way or the other to bother with changing what we have which in objective terms, works well, and is safe.
2 faceplates instead of 4 is what will look better. Also 4 or 6 appliances in the socket is tidier because the 4 or 6 way plugin socket strip is eliminated.
a) people dont want a long row of sockets everywhere. b) it takes several decades to achieve nationwide. Bear in mind there are still installs in use going back as far as the 50s.
OTOH replacing a socket, which any diy competent could do, is a quick cheap safer solution.
smaller, less material.
All manufacturers of new appliances. Plugs retail 50p each, wholesale
35p, ex works 25p each. Multiply that by just 3 plugs per person per year, thats 180 million plugs/yr =3D 45million GBP per year. Lower cost plugs could save these manufacturers a total of around 20-25 million per year.
Now add the same number of plugs again for commercial use and we get savings of 45 million/year. And thats just for the plugs, theres sockets and socket installing labour to add on, see below.
yes it is...
Firstly this reduces labour by halving the no of socket fittings required.
An install nowadays routinely uses pairs of double sockets per location. Installing half the no of faceplates reduces both labour and material costs.
new 2/6 way socket, initially no cheaper, but prices will come down to around =A31.50 when produced in volume. pattress 80p. Requirement for average 4 appliances: =A32.30
How many times does this saving occur per house? Rough guess: x12. Thats =A327.60 per house.
How often are our 30 million houses rewired? Guess 30 years average, so saving per year to the new installation industry is: =A327.60 x 30 million / 30 =3D =A327,000,000 per year.
And I havent even touched on saved labour yet, which is a bigger saving.
Theres no reason rewiring is needed to use these new sockets. total current draw is not increased by their use, what is gained is to eliminate the use of numerous trailing sockets and adaptors. We only use those because the sockets in todays houses are insufficient.
By numerous tons every year. Plus cost of distribution, which is similarly reduced for smaller lighter plugs.
Most not caring is true but not a problem. It is the people that stand to save millions per yaer that will get up off their ass about it. And the consumer will benefit along the way.
As far as our present system working well, it does have one problem, and this would solve it. The proliferation of socket strips and adaptors is a needless consequence of the insufficient number of fitted sockets and the large size of them.
People dont have the laest interest in buying an appliance with a foreign plug plus a convertor, it completely misses every single advantage in what I've proposed. Hence no-one is doing it.
government
They meet BS1363 or BS548?
Would you want to? I did have such a system once, mixed 13A square and
5A round pin. It had its plusses but also its downsides. Using 2 incompatible types of plug/socket is not a plus.
NT wrote | OTOH replacing a socket, which any diy competent could do,
until 31st December last year ...
Theres no reason rewiring is needed to use these new sockets.
Unless they or the plugs are fused, rewiring would be needed to take British
32A ring circuits down to the 16A which is the rating of most European plugs and appliance flexes. (And unfused plugs could *not* be compatible with 13A sockets, for the obvious reason.) 16A radial circuits would, in most cases, use much more cable and also require far more circuits, increasing MCB and labour costs.
| As far as our present system working well, it does have | one problem, and this would solve it. The proliferation | of socket strips and adaptors is a needless consequence | of the insufficient number of fitted sockets
It is the natural consequence of more and more electrical appliances. All countries use socket strips, including countries like the USA which have much smaller plugs (originally intended for christmas tree lights AIUI) and wiring 'code' that specifies down to the inch how many sockets and circuits are required.
1) Get some c*ut politician to outlaw square pin 13A plugs under trades description legislation. The pins aren't square.
2) If you can get say 4 outlets onto a single plate, what makes you think Bodgit & Sons Builders Ltd. will put _two_ new quad outlets where previously they would have put a pair of twins? I see a further cost saving...
3) Having written that, I concede that I don't like BS1363 plugs, have a lot of dealing with 15A roundpin (and every so often some muppet claims that they are "illegal"), I loath CEE form and would certainly not like to rewire everything on a spur like Europe; and don't get me started on IEC (kettle) connectors!
A really nicely thought out, but unfortunately unfused, connector is the Neutric PowerCon. This is starting to be found on pro sound & lighting equipment. 20A, small and it locks in place too!
Why? Small and cheap and ideal for high density low power use - like Hi-Fi etc. The line connectors can be fiddly to fit but ok when you get the knack.
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