Smart meters

+2
Reply to
Adam Funk
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In message , Nick writes

+1. The OP may wish to know that we ignored a hand-delivered "sorry you weren't in" letter in the post-box about a year ago asking us to ring them to get a smart meter. Not heard anything since, thank Darwin.

Also, if you want to support your local organic cannabis farm, I understand they compare smart meter readings with the street sub-station to see if anyone has accidentally bypassed their meter.

Reply to
Nick

So smart meters have magical telepathic powers.

Though I think only some of the later sections of that article refer to Anderson's work.

Now that is much more relevant - and scary

In section B. - "Prepayment" we have:

"Britain?s Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) has decided that meter communications will be centralised at a government head-end and then relayed to the utilities. DECC will be able to monitor use, set targets, and even enforce power cuts on a per-household basis."

Given the government's proven incompetence with IT systems that provides the hackers with a great incentive to try to break in to the single centralised point.

In section E. - "Possible application architecture" there's reference to the possibility of complex non linear tariffs such as for example ?15p per kWh from 6pm to 9pm weekdays up to a 2kW limit, then 50p per kWh?. We could end up with a charging system as complex as that used for calling 08xx phone numbers with no idea what the cost of running an appliance at any particular time would be. For example I could turn on the washing machine and dishwasher at a time when the meter displays a low tariff but by the time the heater cuts in we could be in a high tariff slot and might have gone over the threshold load for even higher rates.

Taken to extremes the variable tariffs could become dynamic and increase every time the wind drops or the weather goes cloudy.

Until we all end up with lots of smart appliances that can communicate with the meter we'd need to keep running round turning things on and off to match the peaks and troughs in the tariff.

My attitude would be to avoid having a smart meter for as long as I could.

Reply to
Mike Clarke

Indeed, he has done research on quite a number of significant security flaws...

Even Bruce recommends him:

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For another take:

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Do you also want to hand your supplier the ability to "manage demand" by turning you off?

Reply to
John Rumm

A few suppliers did cause problems for people with smart meters in the early days for reasons best known to them. It's hard to see why. If another supplier would accept a non-smart meter why reject a smart meter (even if they cannot use it in smart mode) when all smart meters can still be read by eyeballs? In any event, OFGEM require suppliers to take on customer and use the smart meter in dumb mode.

Reply to
Robin

Never mind you having the ability - what about if an outsider has it also? Your electricity usage patterns reveal all kinds of information about your lifestyle, including when the house is occupied or not.

Reply to
John Rumm

a) Your supply can be turned off remotely.

b) If the meter is read frequently remotely then someone may be able to work out when your property is unoccupied.

c) The smart meter may not be compatible with a new supplier should you want to move.

Some time ago (mid 70s) I got a very large gas bill. I relaxed a bit when I found that the meter had been misread. I decided not to complain, but I did have to ring up and ask if they would accept a partial payment which they agreed to.

Reply to
Michael Chare

Used to have that problem with our VH. Central billing system thought it had a 6 digit meter but it actually had only 5 digits. Clueless cut price opo zero pads the 5 digits at the wrong end - resulting in a bill for half the national debt. They turned up wanting to disconnect us at one point whilst we were in dispute over this clearly insane bill!

It didn't seem to occur to them at all that the new meter reading was roughly 10x the expected reading based on previous quarterly usage!!!

With a smart meter they would just do it with the click of the mouse.

We now have a nice new dumb meter with the right number of digits...

Reply to
Martin Brown

The electrical supply to the meter is not turned off. So you phone the electric co to sort it out within in an hour or you DIY a solution getting you power back on without the meter.

Reply to
ARW

A toolbox with side cutters, screwdrivers etc does happen to live in the cupboard under the stairs with the electricity meter, where there happens also to be a used Henley box with holes for 2 sets of 25mm tails. I figure if they cut me off for no good reason, or the hackers take down half the country, they'll have better things to do than pursue me for cutting a few seals.

Reply to
Robin

Don't be silly. Sub stations are not metered.

Reply to
ARW

I have seen current transformers on the HV feed phase cables to the odd one (street substation) - but I don't honestly know if those feed to anything that records anything...

Reply to
Tim Watts

Interesting - what supplier is this? I am not aware that mine provides any monthy direct debit scheme that is based on real usage, rather than an estimate which results in me lending them large amounts of money at a zero interest rate.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Well, that certainly isn't working. Radio 4 did a program on it in last few weeks. OFGEM were part of it and just said, AFAICR, yes it's a known problem preventing people changing supplier.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Look on the bright side, they can cut off customers on green tariffs when the wind doesn't blow at the right speed or when its dark.

Reply to
dennis

They can do that now, how do you think they managed rolling power cuts in the past?

Reply to
dennis

They cut off entire towns at the substations.

Did you think they ran around to everyone's houses and pulled the cutout fuse?

Reply to
Tim Watts

Don't yours just pull off the wires anyway?

Reply to
Capitol

But where did I say that that they were? The concept is that the supply co. has some way of knowing how much juice is being supplied from the station. If all of the houses supplied have smart meters and there's a difference then there's a problem and/or someone has bypassed their meter. Oh, 'accidentally' should have had a smiley after it, sorry.

Reply to
Nick

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