SM - Just had the meter reader round again

[Dave Liquorice]

I don't think so, if anything it's the otherway round the companies get fined if they don't meet the "target". That target is foisted on them by the goverment.

Yes, some one in government decided that Smart Meters were a "Good Idea" and set a target for the nation to have them. Trouble is they were probably career politicians, wouldn't know one end of a 13 A fuse from the other and failed maths.

At that time the technology was in it's infancy, hadn't really been tested in the real world for resistance to attack and no one had really thought about standards or inter-operatabilty. The maths failure means the target set was (is) unrealistic, in that you needed thousands of "trained" installers working 8 hours/day 5 days/week, every week (no holidays, sick, etc) from the announcement date to target date to meet it. ie no time allowed for the kit to be properly tested in the real world, no time for then companies to agree a standard, not time for the sorting out and setting up of the back haul systems, no time to recruite and train the installers.

You'll be waiting a very long time.

The *only* aspect of a Smart Meter that could be usful for the nation is if they supported proper demand management. ie the abilty to control appliances likes fridges/freezers so the very peak few hundred Megawatts of demand could be trimmed off. But even then the maths gets in the way as you need to be able to control virtually every fridge or freezer in the country to "save" a few hundred Megawatts. AFAIK no "Smart Meter" or any appliances support the abilty to do this.

[tabbypurr]

the current mobile phone network may be obsolete in 20 years time due to technological advances. Seems foolish to build a nationwide metering system on the back of it. Data down mains wires would have avoided that.

how did that most basic requirement get left out of the spec? Politicians are at best asleep at the wheel.

why? What's wrong with practical down to earth projects that pay their way and some?

I can't help thinking the rail we most need is underground passenger service in congested cities. Hours of gridlock day after day is costing the country a fortune in lost productivity.

I also wonder whether overhead ziplines for parcels could be a small part of it.

And parcel tube delivery like a larger version of le pneu. Increasing road congestion and increasing internet takeover from bricks & mortar is resulting in ever rising parcel deliveries, something that could be removed from the roads wile reducing costs.

NT

[tabbypurr]

like smart meters, that's another idea that's bound to happen but isn't viable yet.

NT

[Dave Liquorice]

Perzackerly, if "they" had half a clue and thought things through properly we wouldn't have the expensive mess we currently have that "they" are hell bent on "delivering" at any cost even though it can't actaully do the one thing it could usefully do.

One of the things they push as one of the essential must have features is the cost display. Does the tarrif information get uploaded automagically to the meter/display or does the consumer have to manually enter it? If it's not automagic "smart" meters are even dumber than I thought. The average consumer isn't likely to reset the tarrif when it changes, particulary for price changes coming from the supply company rather than those instigated by the consumer.

Does the display show any cumulative costs like last day, last week, last month, since last reset? If not they are even dumber...

[Andy Burns]

When I was with e.on (who fitted my meters) yes they updated it when tariff changed.

On the day I moved supplier, they sent an update to it, so it always displays "0.000 pence/hour" now

I can't even do that to set it to my new supplier's unit rates.

It previously showed a spend for the past 7 and 28 days, obviously those are also zero now, but the graphs for daily, weekly, monthly, yearly consumption are in kWh

[Tufnell Park]

Meter readers are not trained you do electrical 'safety checks', i think you really mean they come to do a 'security check'

[Andy Burns]

Hence the scare quotes.

Actually a meter reader did once point out that my equipotential bonding was on the supplier side of the gas meter, not the house side, it had been that way since I moved-in and hadn't been mentioned during two meter changes.

[Tufnell Park]

I doubt very much if there are any such monitoring point figures collated. With such a plethora of different suppliers nowadays, they will not have the means to aggregate the consumptions as the electricity boards used to. The DNO is the only body able to do so now and they have no obligation unless specifically requested.

I thnk the electricity suppliers know fairly well in which locations the illegal abstaction risks are high.

My meter has not been read in a decade as many 'on line' tariffs require regular meter readings to be submitted by the user.

[Andy Burns]

Even with smart meters, I get a visit every 2-3 years, strangely it has sometimes been for a single meter, when I offered both meters to save a future visit, they're not interested ...

[whisky-dave]

When my meter ready called, well he took a meter reading he filled out a fo rm that said that I needed to have the tails replaced with larger diameter ones and left the paper work. The last meter reader that came didnl;t menti on the tails, I'd had them replaced, but I'm not sure if he was required t o do anything if I hadn't had it done as he didn't appear to have any such paper work with him.

[Tufnell Park]

In which case i doubt if he was only a 'meter reader'. He was probably either a 'meter installer/fixer' or more likely an 'installation inspector'.

[tabbypurr]

over a decade. There's been no access letter. They've not even bothered ask ing for a reading in many years, the estimates have been near enough that I 've paid them without fuss. I can only presume none of the neighbours are f iddling the meter, so all their monitoring point figures add up. I'm sure i t would be a different story if they didn't.

It's a topic that's been studied in depth by the relevant companies. Nowada ys they're very lax about it though, presumably rising standards of living have made it a lot less attractive to petty criminals.

Of course the 'safety check' is a security check, I presume they do also ch eck for obvious gross damage to their equipment which would be a safety iss ue. It's also a chance to get a meter reading where none has been taken in many years.

NT

[Harry Bloomfield]

I also suspect, the more frequent visual readings are taken where it is easier. I would guess we have had actual reading taken every three to six month over the past three years.

[Robin]

I've often seen references to that "requirement" but never seen authority for it. I've tended to think it was a misunderstanding of the the UK law governing the certification of a new *type* of meter. That limited a new type of induction meter to an *initial* certification for

10 years at most. But allowed certification to be extended (or reduced) as a result of monitoring the way they perform in practice and of the testing by the regulator of samples that have been used. OTOH the "Schedule 4" list never showed anything approaching 50 years. On the third hand, I have a vague recollection (which could well be wrong) that meters could be recertified in situ to reset the clock on their life.

I've no idea if the same or similar applies to meters approved under the Measuring Instruments Directive.

[Tufnell Park]

There is a statutory requirement to recertify all electro/mechanical meters every 20 years to ensure accuracy. In practice most suppliers will change the meter for a new or recertified model. This is known as the meter recertification programme.

[Robin]

I'd welcome a pointer to that statute. It seems to me hard to reconcile with the way Schedule 4[1] shows meters certified for more than 20 years (some for 40 years). (That's for England, Wales and Scotland. N Ireland has different legislation but last time I looked even there they had certified some meters for 25 years.)

[1]

[Tufnell Park]

See schedule 4 of the Meters (Certification) Regulations 1998

The certification periods vary by type of meter and manufacturer from 10 to 20 years but the typical single phase electro/mechanical domestic meter used by supply authorities in the UK is certified for 20 years.

There are a lot of these meters still out there awaiting replacement in the programme no doubt.

[Robin]

You may not have noticed but the link I posted was to the latest version of that Schedule 4. (The Statue Law Database does not maintain copies of SIs with subsequent changes incorporated.)

And as I indicated that latest Schedule 4 shows the certification period varies not from 10 to 20 years but (from 0 now) to *40* years. Which is why I was so puzzled by "a statutory requirement to recertify all electro/mechanical meters every 20 years".

No quarrel about that.

[Tufnell Park]

Yes i did notice and view the link you posted and noted that the first 3 meter types on the list have a certification period of 20 years, these are Schumberger/Sangamo single phase meter of the type most commonly fitted in domestic properties in England and Wales.

I am not disputing that other meter types have differing certification periods but i would point out the context of the OP post was regarding a domestic meter.

Incidentally from the list in the link you provided very few of the meters were certified for 40 years, with the majority bewteen 10 years (for mainly 3 phase meters) and 20 years (for single phase meters).

[Dave Liquorice]

So are you saying that, say, a 40 year certification can be plonked onto a 30 year old meter that was only certified for 20 years when new?

Looking at the most up to date schedule:

The 1967 meter: Samgamo S200.16 certified 40 years - 11 years out of certification.

The 1980 meter: GEC Instruments C11B2 certified 30 years - 8 years out of certification.

The 1996 meter: Siemens S2A-100 certfied 10 years - 12 years out of certification.