Simple freeware drawing package with scale?

Hi all,
Does anyone know of a very simple (Windows and freeware ideally) 2D drawing package please? It just wants to be something like MS Paint but with a scale.
Cheers, T i m
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On 10/08/2010 15:56, T i m wrote:

I know it's not 2D and it's not like MS Paint but this is a DIY group.
http://sketchup.google.com/product/gsu.html
Another Dave
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wrote:

;-)
Thanks for that. Potential SonIL was playing with Sketchup earlier so I thought I'd try something else.
I have downloaded it though and will give it a look myself later.
Cheers, T i m
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I don't think it's simple (or intuitive) either but have had some good results after investing quite a bit of learning time...
Jim K
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Jim K wrote:

Agreed, I spent ages getting sufficiently up to speed to design our new kitchen with sketchup but it was worth it. I spent lots of time doing 3D jigsaws and moving things round on screen when snags became apparent in the 3D views but by the time the design was finalised everything went together exactly as planned without any last minute snags.
--
Mike Clarke

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Mike Clarke wrote:

wait till you design something really complex with 3D CAD and it actually all fits..
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That brings back memories of when I was sysadmin for a CAD system on a couple of Prime minicomputers with about 60 graphics workstations. They tried a 3D design package to model the pipework for power stations. The task was horrendous and they never managed to get it fully usable. Generating a solid 3D view could run for days and often crash before it completed. That was using a 300K computer and workstations costing > 10K each. Although sketchup wouldn't scale to coping with a power station in detail I reckon it models the kitchen on my home PC better and faster than the old CAD system could have done.
--
Mike Clarke

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I've used this program which is free in its simplest form 'tho the paid version is very good. I've found it produced very good results and is quite cheap...
http://www.cadstd.com /
--
Tony Sayer



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I used PRIME mini when I was learning programming in college - (Fortran 77 and Cobol) Used to be so slow compiling or assembling each time. Do PRIME still exist ?
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Rick Hughes wrote:

Not any more. In the late eighties they purchased Computervision but shortly after that they shut down the hardware side of the business and concentrated on the CAD/CAM software side trading as Computervision who in turn were taken over by Parametric Technology Corporation.
I quite liked the old Prime machines and much preferred working with them after the previous IBM 370 mainframe. After battling with IBM JCL I found the Primos operating system much more convenient to work with and much preferred it to DEC's VMS which we used for a couple of workstations.
A worked with the Primes until the early nineties when we migrated the CAD system to unix and I've been a 'nix addict ever since.
--
Mike Clarke

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Jim K wrote:

Have you ever tried to use a "traditional" CAD program? AutoCAD and its ilk are in the small subset of programs that make me feel like a fish out of water, I know that people who know what they're doing with them swear by them. By contrast SketchUp did feel intuitive to me, and you learn a lot quickly from their videos.
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Andy Burns wrote:

two schools of thought. Those than find CAD programs easy, and those that find drawing programs easy.
I cant make solidworks work, Hated Turbocad but I can drive Rhino now..and Corel Draw..
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oncea long time ago- not pleasant ;>)

yes early stages are (predictably?) pleasant...how much further have you been tho? levels, entity info, trying to delete elements whilst leaving others intact?...
cheers Jim K
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Jim K wrote:

Plan model of ground floor of house and garage, with all window and door openings.
Full 3D model L-shaped kitchen (including actual non-squareness of walls) and fitted units and wall/floor tiling (found it useful to decide where joins would look best)
... and yes with the latter you do have to save often in case you haven't noticed some grotesque fractured join in a hidden part of the model which apparently is unfixable without destroying complete surfaces - you learn what sort of things not to do to allow that to happen.
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right you'll be getting amongst the nettles then ;>)
I've done our entire house to ~25mm max. "as was" and then designed (now done) major renovations, new rooms, relocated stairs, decided abt veluxes etc. just completing a compact bathroom all "thought out" on SkUp.
many saves make light work!
noticed how file sizes can get a bit much even after things deleted??
cheers Jim K
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On 10/08/10 15:56, T i m wrote:

The requirement for a scale is the problem here.
You could try qcad. It's a very clunky traditional-style CAD package.
http://qcadbin-win.sourceforge.net /
Sketchup is a better one to learn, though, although it's 3D you can manipulate 2D objects just fine.
Inkscape doesn't really have a concept of drawing to scale yet AIUI.
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Oh.
Seems ok (as even I've started drawing with it <g>). I think I like clunky. ;-)

I'll give that a go later. I'm not sure I have the patience for either really but I'll see how I get on. I can see a sheet of A3 and a pen and rule coming on. ;-)

Ok and thanks again.
T i m
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T i m wrote:

You could try Allycad
http://www.allycad.com/freeware.asp
The freeware version has limited drawing file size.
I used to use it many, many years ago when it was known in the uk as choicecad. Gave a cheap sound introduction to cad, before migrating to autocad. From what I remember it was quite intuitive to use.
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wrote:

That seems quite cute and again I actually managed to draw a basic shape with it. ;-)

It's the 'CAD' stuff that takes a bit of getting used to for me, like drawing a circle by clicking once on the start point, moving then clicking again. Makes sense probably just not yer normal click, drag, release way (you may well be able to do it that other way but not be default that I've seen).
The other weird thing is after you have finished your drawing you save it then want to exit the program but it won't let you ... having to find how to issue the 'Cancel command' or whatever it wanted (I force quitted the prog with Task manager (on A9CAD)) as I CBA to try all the options or RTFM (right then especially)!
(For me anyway) the goal isn't often worth the effort that has to go into learning these things. I have infinite patience with things mechanical or even stuff like fixing PC's but I can feel my frustration threshold sensor about to trigger fairly quickly when doing any of this sort of thing (inc web design, databases, spreadsheets, DTP etc). 53, worked with 'computers' since the XT and never made a spreadsheet nor newsletter.
I guess it's like anything isn't it, if you take the time to learn the more sophisticated tools properly then you could eventually become more productive or be able to do more advanced things. However, I think it can also be an issue of diminishing returns, especially if the needs are simple and use, few and far between.
Daughter is similar with photo / picture stuff. Most of her photo manipulation and output is done in with MS Paint, Irfanview and OO Writer (or Word). This includes doing stuff like putting previously cropped arms on people in family photos (she just did a 200 photo album for the Wife's 60th) and other pretty major editing. I dare say it would be much easier in the likes of Photoshop or Gimp but she hasn't had the time / patience to break that first boundary of functionality so reverts to what she knows. She has persevered with her web site because a) she /needed/ a web site and b) we found a web design app that was sufficiently logical / WYSIWYG and DTP orientated to her to overcome the initial hurdles / frustration quick enough to get results (WebPlusX4). Once she had the basic site together she is happy (well not really but does so) to 'learn' how to do the extra bits as the need arises.
However I understand that these things often have to be 'complicated' to provide the range of options most people would need.
Both of us learn best by 'doing' and if something is complex a 1:1 guide is also highly effective (we don't generally have to be shown twice but being shown is important to our way of learning). Video tutorials can also be ok but only if very close to what we actually want to do.
Cheers, T i m
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If you already have Windows, you probably have Word. I find that I've been able to draw pretty much whatever I've needed in Word. If you are thinking more in terms of free style drawing you would want to get yourself a graphics tablet as well, and this would come with drawing software (which, in my case, I've never needed to use).
S
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