Greetings, The Sikkens web site is less than clear to me...
Can anyone help a newby and clarify the useage and differences between: Cetol HLS, Cetol Filter7, Cetol THB, Novatech and Novatop?
I'm considering one of the above, or Sabrina Oak Oil
Any general thoughts / comments on appropriate finishing als welcome!
Thanks,
Mike A.
I would not use any of the Sikkens type treatments or any other varnish for an exterior oak door - you will ruin the appearance.
I have a front door and frame (plus other joinery) manufactured by Sabrina - and excellent they are as well.
For the outside of the front door (which is somewhat exposed but under a porch), I have used the Sabrina oak oil to excellent effect.
I maintain it once or twice a year as follows.
- clean off dirt with vacuum cleaner - I use air line as well but not absolutely needed.
- wipe down with rag soaked in water/detergent.
- wipe with rag soaked in white spirit.
- apply oak oil moderately with a brush and allow to soak in for ten minutes.
- wipe off excess with a rag.
- apply a second coat of oil after a few hours and wipe off.
Total time taken is an hour, tops, and the results are excellent.
The inside of the door is stained, shellaced and polished with beeswax
- different effect.
Either way, please don't use varnish on natural oak - it's sacrilege. :-)
.andy
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Oil alone isn't really an adequate finish for a front door. It's OK for some external oak, but a door is just too obvious and needs something that looks a bit more "finished". I'd suggest either a _gel_ poly varnish, or a Danish oil.
Gel polys are applied by wiping with a rag. Because they're applied so thin, two coats in a reasonable finish, but it doesn't have the ugly plastic look of most polys.
Danish oils are a generic term for oil + varnish mixes, and there's a lot of difference between brands. They have more UV and weather resistance than plain oils. For best results, try a yacht chandlers - there's a range of decorative wood finishes of the danish oil variety that are intended to look their best even if this requires re-coating every few years for best appearance (depending on how much weather you get) Avoid "spar" varnishes though, those are intended to be proof against movement and often don't look particularly good close up. As they're only a small varnish component, then you can re-coat these easily in the future without needing to strip the old finish.
You might even use an extra-hard formaldehyde floor finish (Rustin's floorcoat), then knock the gloss back a little with rottenstone or pumice. Because it's so hard you can do this, whereas a poly is too soft to really allow surface matting.
Another trick (in the appropriate situation) is just to ammonia fume the thing and make it look old, then apply a plain oil finish and allow it to work its way through to ancient.
This really depends on the degree of exposure of the door.
If it is frequently subject to driving rain then I'd agree that Danish Oil would be a good choice - I like it as a finish.
However, if the door is reasonably sheltered (e.g. under a porch) then plain oil is absolutely fine IME. The Sabrina stuff is natural turpentine, boiled linseed oil and beeswax. I find that I need to do a quick maintenance job 1-2 times a year on my front door and it continues to look great,.
As a matter of interest, do you know of any UK brand names for these? I've seen them in the U.S.
.andy
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Agreed.
What a bizarre combination. What's the wax doing in there ?
Not many - they're certainly rare over here. Easiest to find is Screwfix's "Patina".
Mmm. I know. Works well though, and does seem to extend time between treatments. I've used it indoors for various joinery and the floors.
Ah OK. I'll check into a few of the U.S. vendors and see if they have distribution outside the U.S.
.andy
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Any opinions on, and experiences with, Rustin's Flexterior
Yes. I used that on the front doorstep, also oak.
The reason was to provide a high degree of protection to the step, because, although I could train the kids not to step on it and mark it, doing so with their friends was not as succesful.
It does have quite a high gloss, so I would not use it on a large area like a complete door - it would make it look like plastic. For the step it was a trade off.
The main oiled area of the door has a rich colour similar to some kinds of clear honey, whereas the Flexterior on the step has fixed it at its original colour. I did the Flexterior three years ago and it has done a really good job. Part of the step is in full sun for part of the day, and there is no sign of deterioration.
When I redo it, I will probably strip the lot off and lightly stain the step which is more the colour of cloudy honey.
I used four coats of Flexterior, thinning the first and then *very* lightly sanding between coats. You do need to allow a good 24hrs between coats because it has a long drying time. It seems to take about 2 hours to get to the point where arriving insects don't get stuck in it.
If you are looking for good durability, I would definitely recommend this product, but as I say, not on a large area if you want the wood to look at all natural.
.andy
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Thanks - just the answer I was looking for. Their web site doesn't really indicate the degree of glossiness. Needing to re-do the front portal some time, I might go for a similar combination: Flexterior on the step and Danish oil elsewhere.
I think that that's reasonable. The oil that I use, or Danish Oil for that matter does not put anything much above a matt to satin appearance on the wood.
The thing is that the door is in front of your eyes, whereas the step is not so it is not really noticable unless the sun shines across it.
Up closer, wood coated with Flexterior does have a slight appearance of having been dipped in plastic - probably because the layers of varnish end up being fairly thick. The gloss is not as high as yacht varnish but is more than satin if that helps...
.andy
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Just wanted to thank you folks for the info above. Very useful.
In the end I went for the Sikkens (HLS + Filter7). While I much prefered the oil finish the balance of opinion was that it wouldn't give the weather protection I needed.
The result looks OK - but the Sikkens 'light oak' looks too 'orange' for my taste. Hopefully a little weathering might improve it.
With the benefit of hindsight (and a little more info from Sikkens - their website is less than spectacular) I'd have gone for their water-based alternative - Cetol BL21 + Cetol BL31. On the next job perhaps.
Thanks again,
Mike A.
Is it directly exposed to driving rain? If not, oil would have been a more appealing finish and perfectly adequate.
I just redid my front door. I normally do it twice a year and it looks great.
I am afraid that it will become more orange looking as the UV affects it.
.andy
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Be warned that Filter 7 does not last as well as it says ..... I have to redo all of my outside every other year ... the stain just fades away.
I am using Filter 7 deal (or pine depending on tin) over Sapelle, it looks great for first few months but does not wear as well as it should.
Rick
replying to Andy Hall, Roy Peebles wrote: Sikkens is not a varnish. It is a hydrporous wood coating which allows the timber to breath. An excellent product for a hardwood door.
After 14 years, it might be worth asking him how it worked out!
In message , Davey writes
He would need an Ouija board :-(
No argument in this case ...
Epifanes make something similar "hardwood oil", Three coats and less it breaths.
Epifanes equivalent lasts around 10 years on a door facing south. We use it on our front door.
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