Shooting the messenger

Listening to the Euro stuff on the news as I sit here
And there's all this stuff about how the EU officials are insisting that we do this and insisting that we do that
and I can't help but come to the conclusion that much of what they are doing is simply "shooting the messenger"
tim
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wrote:

That's the reason we voted Brexit! The EU being dictatorial, yet again, telling us what to do and how to manage our affairs. It's in their blood; in their DNA; they're so used to doing it that they can't stop or see the damage they're doing. Typical unaccountable bureaucrats, believe they're untouchable and that they run the world.
--

Chris

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Why are you surprised? They are unaccountable and untouchable.
--
"If you're not able to ask questions and deal with the answers without feeling
that someone has called your intelligence or competence into question, don't
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I'm concluding they are doing *exactly* what 'we' would have done if the positions were reversed.
And you really can't say you weren't warned.
You have to be Turnip to behave like a c**t and expect others to be gentlemen towards you.
We were desperate to leave the EU. Now want to delay that point to suit ourselves, regardless of how that may effect the EU. Pie in the sky. You don't hand in your notice to an employer you hate (and he knows it) and expect him to be flexible about working that notice.
--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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wrote:

I'm sure that a lot of us who voted Leave did so in the hope that the other countries might come up with a better offer for us to stay in.
If that were to happen that offer would have to come from the council of ministers, who don't meet until next Monday.
Now, that may be very unlikely to happen but I do think that it should be given the opportunity
So on that basis, I think that it is completely unacceptable for the unelected, unaccountable, jumped up, EU administrator to say "go and get out now!" before he can have possibly be advised as to the feelings of the complete cohort of ministers.
tim
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wrote:

Speaking as a remainer, I'd think that an understandable but very risky tactic. However the Brits aren't the only ones capable of risky tactics. I agree with Dave that Europe would say if you've got to go, go now. The prospect of the process being about to start now, and not when the Brits feel like it is probably loosening a few bowels amongst the Brexit leadership and might make them more willing to grab at a face-saving better offer when it is put to them by the council of ministers, maybe as early as next week. Remember the Irish and the Lisbon Treaty?
Nick
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wrote:

It wasn't a tactic
It was an acceptable outcome that would see us gaining less in return for getting the deal done quicker.
It would see them losing less, in return for getting the deal done quicker.
They don't want to taken that route, just fine by me.
On a 20 year timetable, I don't think that this is a war that they can win, we just have to be prepared to lose a lot of battles on the way.
tim
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On 25/06/2016 16:57, tim... wrote:

I would argue that it is not possible to make a sensible decision about leaving the EU until you know the terms and conditions of any future trade and other agreements. The EU are unlikely to offer what we might think of as favourable terms as they do not wish to encourage others to leave.
It appears, from what I heard on the radio, that we don't even have enough experienced staff to run the negotiations properly.
--
Michael Chare

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On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:10:13 +0100, Michael Chare

Of course.

Quite. And :
"During the two-year negotiation period, EU laws would still apply to the UK. The UK would continue to participate in other EU business as normal, but it would not participate in internal EU discussions or decisions on its own withdrawal."
So much for the 'negotiation we were promised?

Doesn't look like we will need any ... ;-(
http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-mechanics-of-leaving-the-eu-explaining-article-50/
Cheers, T i m
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On 25/06/2016 19:27, T i m wrote:

Even if that were the broad intent and actuality, there are things like the European Medicines Agency which is based in London. I can't see that remaining there for two years, and then suddenly moving on the last day of year two. Still less can I imagine the 27 being happy for it to remain located in London beyond two years. So, I suspect they are likely already close to deciding a new location and packing up whatever they will take with them as soon as possible.
That would not, in my view, constitute continued participation in other EU business as normal.
--
Rod

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polygonum wrote:

Well as the drugs companies are complaining about how slow the EMA is, this would look like progress.
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On 25/06/2016 21:00, Capitol wrote:

The EMA might well be too slow.
However, it does seem to be the body which oversees mutual recognition procedures which, at least potentially, allow faster introduction of a medicine to other countries once approved in one country.
One way in which that might directly benefit the UK is actually in terms of medicine costs. One medicine, which a few years ago cost £12 a month, has rocketed to about £250 in the UK. The Greek equivalent is less than two euros - and seems to be very acceptable to many patients. The mutual recognition process just might open the door to the Greek product becoming available to the NHS.
Further, the costs of doing additional approvals for the UK only might be too high and end up with us not getting some medicines, at least in the shorter term.
--
Rod

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wrote:

Nope.

Well, I think it's still early days on this relationship breakup. We are currently in the 'threats and crying' stage and hope to get the decree Nisi before the end of the year. At that point some may accept it's serious and others will wait for the absolute two years later before changing their stationary. ;-)

Nope ... 'talk to my solicitor'. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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wrote:

You don't know that there will be a 2 year negotiation period. That is just the time at which certain things happen if there is no agreement to disagree.

Not if Britain chooses to make an obscene gesture in the general direction of an intransigent EU and pulls the plug on the EU, as it is completely free to do any time it chooses.
Article 50 doesn't say it can't do that.

It has already stopped doing that with the resignation of the British EU Commissioner.

Britain was never promised any negotiations.

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wrote:

But it impossible to ever know that.

Yes, but there is no need for favourable terms.

Don’t need any negotiations, Britain out of the EU is free to trade with the EU under the WTO rules, just like all of the US, Canada, India, China, Taiwan, Australia, Korea etc etc do fine.
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wrote:

That's because we haven't needed them for so long,
But,
We are the 5th largest economy in the world We have the second best set of universities in the world (no-one else in Europe even comes close) We have one of the top 5 most desirable locations that the "elites" want to live in.
The idea that we cant go out and employ the worlds best to these new roles is nonsense
tim
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On Saturday, 25 June 2016 16:29:01 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

We shall do as we see fit. Fuck the EUSSR. As they told Camoron over his "negotiations". It is doomed anyway.
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wrote:

I'm casually watching 'Nothing to declare UK' and it's funny to see all the people having stuff confiscated and destroyed because the people *weren't* coming in from the EU. ;-)
So what of all the 'booze cruises' and people taking vans over to France or doesn't that still happen in any case?
This looked quite sober reading (and from Feb):
<http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21693568-david-cameron-will-struggle-win-referendum-britains-eu-membership-if-he-loses
Cheers, T i m
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Thanks
The only one that many people won't have known about already is probably
< quote >
Article 50 provides that the EU will negotiate a new agreement with the withdrawing country over two years. That can be extended, but only by unanimous agreement. The article also specifies that, when agreeing a new deal, the EU acts without the involvement of the country that is leaving.
</quote>
So that basically rather than going in there and negotiating the best deal for the UK - a scenario accepted by many commentators - the UK will have to stand in the corridor outside the headmasters office and then be called in, once the likes of Rumania and Poland have finally decided what her fate should be.
Humiliating ? No of course not.
The rest of the article concerning the disastrous consequences for the UK economy should be already well known.
michael adams
...
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michael adams wrote:

I don't think it's saying the EU excluding the leaving country *decides* what happens to the leaving country, rather that the EU excluding the leaving country *negotiates* with the leaving country.
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