Can you still get it?
I need some 4x2" to replace some warped joists upstairs (4x2 on top of
4x2, top layer twisted and warped).Alsford Timber claim not to do sawn timber, but they can plane the next size up down, which is obviously going to cost more.
Cheers
Tim
Hmmm - most constructional timber sizes are imported as regularised and treated, though some larger sections are sawn and treated
I guess you need to match existing timber dimensions exactly?
Height only or height and width?
Height only, find someone with a table saw - or maybe a handheld circular saw with some jiggery-pokery.
Height and width - bite the bullet - and get it pushed through a thicknesser - shouldn't really be *that* expensive.
eh? any builders merchant will do you rough sawn untreated lumber.
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:43:14 -0700, " snipped-for-privacy@gglz.com" wibbled:
Both: height obviously as flooring's on top. Width too as I'll be plating this one with ply (only replacing half the run that's twisted).
I have one other joist to pack up from new (600mm gap between the neighbouring 8x2s, rather bouncy floor in that region. In this case I'll glue and screw the new 4x2 onto the existing ceiling rafter.
I guess so - I'll ask them.
Cheers
Tim
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:52:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wibbled:
Builder's Merchants and wood is not usually a connection I make, but I'll have a look at Parkers - good pointer - ta.
Tim
As a matter of interest, why untreated?
================================================
Sawn timber is a staple of the building trade for roofing, joists etc. You might do better by ignoring the big name outlets and look for local timber merchants in Yellow Pages. You might still have difficulty getting exact
4" x 2" but most yards will cut larger sections to size at little or no extra cost if you're buying the offcuts as well. This obviously isn't the same as planing down to size so there is little or no waste.Cic.
cheaper innit?
Really? Interesting... I've seen joists attached horizontally plenty of times, but not vertically - wouldn't that be less sound structurally because the 'thin' boards are trying to bend and putting stress on whatever's attaching them together?
I've had the same prob. getting rough stuff this side of t'pond too - all the big places do only dimensional stuff; I'd probably have to go direct to a mill to get anything else. Luckily I only needed about 8', and we had a derelict shed way out back which gave up one of its timbers...
cheers
Jules
Not by much, at least over here - it's less than 10% extra for treated. Problem with treated (at least here, maybe the UK process is different?) is the need to use fastners that won't react and fail catostrophically within a few years; at least with untreated you can use any old screws and nails without worry.
cheers
Jules
In article , Jules Richardson scribeth thus
In the |UK its referred to as Tanalised .. might have misspelt that but as far as I know that doesn't corrode metal or does it??....
Not that I am aware of, no,
Tanalising is only one sort of treatment tho.
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:31:47 +0000, Jules Richardson wibbled:
It was done in a few areas where they couldn't trivially get 8x2" in during a loft conversion. I've been beefing them up by plating the sides with ply, but mostly because it is easy now, rather any absolute need - they've been there 30 years.
I'm happy to make an exception to my usual perfectionism and pull the stunt once more to close down a 2' span of the floor boards to something more sensible - there strength is less important as it will be 200mm away from an 8x2 - it just makes the floorboards go "boing" less.
Alsfords said they could take the next size PAR and plane it down to
100x50mm (excatly what I need) but it seems silly as AFAIK the modern PAR that is just down from 100x50 is derived from a bit of sawn 4x2, so why not get the 4x2 in the first place (and Alsfords are expensive).I could use treated garden stuff, but I'm not sure if I could get a 3.4m length.
Didn't know about that problem - is it bad on unplated nails and screws?
All of my new shed is treated timber, but the screws and nails are all stainless steel. The treated timber around the new loft hatch is held in place with galvanised nailes and the hatch frame with plated screws - are they OK?
It depends what it's been treated with, and I'm not familiar with the typical UK treating process (other than remembering painting fences with creosote as a kid :-)
Over here it's all pressure-treated wood, and the preservatives used (I believe it's the copper in them) react with steel fastners, corroding them and resulting in eventual failure (in as little as a couple of years, I've read before). Stainless is generally recommended, or hot- dipped galvanised (but not necessarily fastners galvanised by other means).
I'm currently worrying about the dog-pen I built last year as I used galvanised screws there believing them to be OK, but only read later about the hot-dipping aspect and I'm not sure if the ones I had were. I'm tempted to swap them all for stainless sooner rather than later, just in case!
cheers
Jules
I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the preservative used here contains copper, chromium and arsenic and is not recommended for animal use because of the likelihood of them chewing it and ingesting the chemicals.
Andrew
Oh, OK - misunderstood; I thought you were describing boards on their sides to make a 4x4" joist, not an 8x2". I can now go and relax with a coffee, safe in the knowledge that your house isn't going to fall down ;-)
Yeah, sounds like a plan. Do you mean you currently have 2' between existing joists, or that the joist span between supporting structure below is only 2'? The deflection of an 8x2" over only 2' will be sixteen shades of bugger all :-)
Yeah - see if you have any sawmills in your area as you might be able to talk to them direct. As you need so little, they might even just give you what you need...
Check out somewhere that supplies decking materials - they'd have something intended for the sub-structure that was long enough, although I suspect that they might all be dimensional and so not the exact 8x2" that you need. Perhaps worth a phone call, though.
cheers
Jules
Used to be like that here in the US, too, but they banned it several years ago - all the new stock uses something* else, but it still contains copper and/or stuff that eats fastners :-(
Jules
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 14:46:05 +0100, Andrew May wibbled:
The As bit is banned here and has been for a little while at least.
But I'm interested in the Cu component corroding screws. I was subconsciously worried about something like this, but I was considering how well glue would or wouldn't stick to it.
Think I would insist on untreated now...
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 14:04:12 +0000, Jules Richardson wibbled:
Hasn't yet, despite the best efforts of various builders! ;-O
2' between one pair of joists - most spacings are either 400mm or 500mm (varies for some reason) which are OK. 600mm on this one pair is causing noticeable bounce in the floor.However, 150-200 odd mm away from one of the joists, there is a 4x2 ceiling joist that's begging to have another bit of 4x2 glued and screwed down onto it which means all my joist spacings are 500mm or less - which seems to make all the difference.
Only found one mill and they specialise in oak.
Yes - decking's an idea[1]. Haven't researched the sizes yet - and the problem of treated wood rears its head.
I'll try a rummage in the Thompson local and see if there are any timber yards that I haven't found yet.
[1] I've cleared open an old pedestrian path that goes through the hedge on the other end of my land (corner plot). Needs a gate. Reckon I might make a gate out of decking joists (frame) and decking surface - should last forever :)Cheers
Tim
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