Root Cause

[John]

Observing how roads deteriorate it seems that Joins in the tarmac and Drains are the major cause.

So why isn't more attention given to these features when a road is resurfaced?

[The Natural Philosopher]

That is not the problem round here.

Any crack due to loading will become a point of entry for ice based surface breakup

That is why may roads in Scandinavia are not tarmacked at all.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)]

Well they often build them up to the new level first do they not? The big issue I think is the make do and mend culture taken to the enth degree, so your road ends up more mends than anyting else. Also of course no remedial action of the underlying road base seems to be ever done, ie if a contractor has dug it up and badly concreted the lower layer, this sinks or cracks and the road above breaks up. Brian

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)]

Our road was wonderful when it was just concrete, but folk complained that the small corrugations made driving noisy, so they tarmaced it.

Brian

[alan_m]

Around my way the main problems appear to be caused by the road being dug up after the resurface and then badly repaired afterwards. The holes start appearing at the boundary between the original road surface and the filled in road works.

[Andy Burns]

They don't seem to "prime" the boundary of the hole with a metal watering can full of hot pitch like they used to ... elf'n'safety?

[alan_m]

There is often a lack of joined up planning. I've lost count of the number of times that I've seen a utility company dig up a newly surface road, and not just for a minor repair. The worst example was when Southend council spent millions on revamping the pedestrian only high street with a mix of paving slabs, cobbles, seats and flower beds in pretty patterns. Very soon afterwards there was wide 20 foot deep trench running the whole length to replace major services.

[Clive Arthur]

Just as a point of order, Tarmacadam isn't used, asphalt concrete is. I know 'everybody' calls it Tarmac, but then 'everybody' is wrong.

[Dave Liquorice]

No Section 58 Notice issued? That should stop the statutory undertakers (Openreach, Virgin, power, water, etc) from digging up the road for up to five years. With the exception of emergencies or new customer connections.

[Brian Reay]

In some parts of the US ( eg Michigan) they have * restrictions on heavy vehicles using the roads when the temperature is within a certain range. Generally known as the ?ice laws?. The theory is, within the range, the road can be damaged. Warmer and there is no ice, colder and the ice is ?sold?.

*This was the case back in the mid 80s, I assume the rules still apply.

[Robin]

Indeed.

Of course in a proportion of cases there is an emergency which means the it's soon dug up soon. And we naturally tend to remember - and report - those cases; and forget all the ones when it ain't. We could reduce such cases by requiring prophylactic replacement of all old [to be defined] utilities before major resurfacing. At a price to customers for the gas, electricity, water, ...

[Clive Arthur]

A long time ago, I worked briefly in the TRRL 'Pavement Design and Maintenance' department ('pavement' means road as far as they're concerned) designing control equipment for testing road core samples.

One thing I learnt is that the Asphalt Concrete formulation varies depending on the expected temperature range, eg quite different between Cornwall and Scotland, which implies that there isn't a formulation which will cover all extremes, just a statistically best one.

[tabbypurr]

It would seem sensible to embed a concrete pipe or 2, then charge utilities to use it. Cheaper for the utils (& thus end users) than digging roads & pavements up repeatedly, and cheaper on road maintnance.

NT

[charles]

this often happens because the heavy machinery used in the original work damages the services below. Not so common with plastic gas and water pipes, but can still happen with drains.

[charles]

how do you get tehn T offs to the various properties down the road?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Ofh FFS

"Asphalt concrete (commonly called asphalt,[1] blacktop, or pavement in North America, and tarmac, bitumen macadam, or rolled asphalt in the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland)"

(wiki)

[Andrew]

It is the tyres that are noisy, surely ?.

The M27 west of Chichester used to be like this. trouble with concrete is that the subbase needs to be perfect.

Andrew

[Andrew]

And sometimes intentionally 'to make work for another company'.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It is the combination.

You can lay tunes in concrete roads and it has been done

[Steve Walker]

Putting the services under the pavements and moleing connections from side to side would make a massive difference.

SteveW