Road Tax on driving a vehicle

If you drive a car, van, etc., please read -
Sarah Kennedy was talking about this proposed car tax scheme on Radio 2. Apparently there is only one month left to register your objection to the 'Pay As You Go' road tax.
The petition is on the 10 Downing St website but they didn't tell anybody about it. Therefore at the time of Sarah's comments only 250,000 people had signed it and 750,000 signatures are required for the government to at least take any notice.
Once you've given your details (you don't have to give your full address, just house number and postcode will do), they will send you an email with a link in it. Once you click on that link, you'll have signed the petition.
The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about 200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was 28 for a rural florist and 194 for a delivery driver. A non working mother who used the car to take the kids to school paid 86 in one month.
On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit in time you can probably expect a Notice of Intended Prosecution with your monthly bill.
If you are concerned about this Orwellian plan and want to stop the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website (link below) and pass this on to as many people as possible. Sign up if you value your freedom and democratic rights -
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

<SNIP>
Just to update that, the petition now has about 665,000 signatures and has another 2 weeks to run - closing on 20th Feb.
It is by far the best supported petition on the No 10 website - the next in line having a mere 22,000 signatures - but it still needs more people to sign it in the next few days if it is to have any effect.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
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On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:15:43 -0000 Roger Mills wrote :

If five million people signed it would still have no effect. The reality is that something has to be done to reverse the ever increasing amount of traffic and the Conservatives know it too. Traffic congestion is Socialist: the duke and the dustman sit there side by side both getting fed up. Freeing the roads up for those with money must appeal to those who have lots.
"Equally, measures to reduce car usage have other arguments to back them up - not least the fact that the marginal car user does not take into account the pollution and congestion that this produces. I have long favoured a policy or road-pricing which made us consider the worth of a journey against its now explicit cost.
I would press on with road pricing and justify it also as a measure against global warming."
Roger Bootle is managing director of Capital Economics and economic adviser to Deloitte.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/01/29/ccom29.xml
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk


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wrote:

I have no problem with that....but I'd prefer it to be done via fuel pricing, or whatever. Otherwise it's just one more state control and surveillance tool.
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Just how is it state control?
And it doesn't have to be implemented as a surveillance tool. IMHO you would have better results just campaigning for that.
tim
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On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 19:47:43 -0000, tim..... wrote:

Mobile phones aren't implememted as a surveillance tool, but phone records have been used for forensic purposes.
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nog wrote:

IIUC, they can be used as a direct listening device if you play with primitives low enough down in the GSM stack... (the mic on/off commands etc)
--
Cheers,

John.

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That's because the record is for the use of the same network that is controlling the billing.
A satellite based road charging system only uses the satellite to calculate the miles driven/class of road used etc. The actual data will have to be calculated from this data by the the 'box' in the car transmitting the info back to the road authority using some other mechansim (probably GPRS). There is no need for this transmitted data to include where you drove, only how far and when for each road type.
tim
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tim..... wrote:

So when someone offers "the powers that be" the option of being able to know where any vehicle is at any given time, you can see them turning down the "option" of having that information... since it would only be in the interests of "the war on terror"/controlling immigration/preventing crime/ or whatever the BS excuse of the month is at the time?
--
Cheers,

John.

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No, of course. That is why we should campaign for it not to happen. (This is not the same as supporting a campaign for there not to be road charging)
tim
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On 5 Feb 2007 19:40:14 GMT Bob Eager wrote :

But ultimately, and missed by most commentators, this is not about making money, rather persuading people to change their lifestyles. So the mother quoted by the OP doesn't spend 86 a month to take her children to school, but sends them by PT, moves house or sends them to a school in walking distance. Merely upping the price of fuel won't do this - if you choose not to drive from here to Heathrow at 10.00p.m. no one really benefits (marginal less pollution aside). If you (and lots like you) can be persuaded not to drive there between 0800 and 1000 then there are real benefits for everyone else.
As to surveillance, there are so many cameras around these days I suspect that they can track anyone they need to.
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk


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It's unrealistic to suggest that a mother could do any of those things!

Hurrah!
Mary (who never used a car to take any or all of her five children to school/s, they had to get up in the morning and catch the buses as Spouse and I had - or use our bikes)
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Why? That suggests every mother in the country *has* to have a car to take the kids to school.
I'm not singling out mothers for using a car when not needed - it's endemic to nearly every car owner. Even although most complain bitterly about congestion. And unless something is done to reduce the continued *increase* in road usage the congestion will just get worse. Road pricing is a way of trying to reduce usage. Those who don't like it might like to try and think of an alternative.
--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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wrote:

Alternative: half of all cars given a red disc, rest given a blue disc then alternate the days on which each colour can drive.
Result: congestion cut in half but government doesn't get a penny extra from us.
John.
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John wrote:

Result. everyone has two cars, a red one and a blue one.

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Yes. This is what they did in Athens a few years ago, except using odd and even number plates.
There are several effects:
- The restriction only applies to private cars and not to vans, minibuses, trade vehicles and so on.
Result: There are a lot of people running small "businesses" with magnetic signs on their cars
- A lot of people buy one good car and one crappy one, having odd and even plates
Result 1: Increase in pollution from older cars
Result 2: Congestion in suburbs especially those with apartment buildings because of inadequate off street parking.
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And everyone would be happy.
Wouldn't they?
:-)
Mary

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It has been done by the Japanese.. they just buy two cars.
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Similar schemes have been tried elsewhere - people just buy a second car and increase parking problems.
--
*How come you never hear about gruntled employees? *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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John wrote:

Something similar was tried in Athens some years ago. Base on odd or even numbered car reg. Lots of two car families and false number plates.
--
djc

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