Replacement of loose bricks - cast in concrete or point in new bricks?

The cause of a loose socket has been traced to loose bricks (or their remains). The socket pattress was held loosely in by plaster around its edges.

As the fragments of brick were doing nothing more than sitting on the cavity wall foam I have removed them.

I now have a rather intimindating void to fill.

Do I (a) re-fill the hole with brick that must be shaped to fill the hole, (b) ditto but with easily shaped lightweight block rather than brick or (c) contrive suitable shuttering and fill the hole with concrete.

A and B are least appealing because of the difficulty of properly filling the crevices with mortar when pointing in the new brick(s) and the difficulty of cutting them to fit. C is most appealing because of its gap filling properties.

TIA

Richard

Reply to
RJS
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remains). The socket pattress was held loosely in by plaster around its edges.

wall foam I have removed them.

ditto but with easily shaped lightweight block rather than brick or (c) contrive suitable shuttering and fill the hole with concrete.

crevices with mortar when pointing in the new brick(s) and the difficulty of cutting them to fit. C is most appealing because of its gap filling properties.

if its internal why not use exapanding foam or scrunched up newspaper, then bonding plaster and then skim

stick the pattress in the plaster if you want to keep it there.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

remains). The socket pattress was held loosely in by plaster around its edges.

wall foam I have removed them.

ditto but with easily shaped lightweight block rather than brick or (c) contrive suitable shuttering and fill the hole with concrete.

crevices with mortar when pointing in the new brick(s) and the difficulty of cutting them to fit. C is most appealing because of its gap filling properties.

I would do A or B, depending what I had to hand. The quality of the pointing doesn't matter in this case, indeed the rougher, the better key for the plaster.

OTOH, I might have tried to fix the original problem by pushing the back box into wad of sloppy bonding coat plaster, which will often stick it to crumbly brickwork much better than a screw will fix one to solid brickwork, and stick the crumbly wall together. However, don't use it instead or mortar, not that you've actually pulled the wall apart.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

On Monday, August 27, 2012 10:10:06 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote= :

Yes, it's internal.

What supports the surrounding brickwork and bricks above if I use filler fo= am?

One of two pattress is being removed. Unfortunately, I have to leave the p= attress with the timer-spur which supplies the towel rail in the adjoining = bathroom. Fortunately this pattress is set into semi-solid brick and I can= live with that as it will not have to suffer removal and insertion of plug= s.

R
Reply to
RJS

Is there any reason why I _mustn't_ do 'c'?

there's no brickwork to screw to - just a void!

I'm deleting the double socket that was in this pattress because I doubt th= at I can create a solid structure for the box to fix to - I don't want remo= val of a plug to pull the socket out of the wall. I can live without the = socket in this location. I do, however, have to leave the timer-spur that= was fed from the socket

Richard

Reply to
RJS

ains). The socket pattress was held loosely in by plaster around its edges= .

ity wall foam I have removed them.

, (b) ditto but with easily shaped lightweight block rather than brick or (= c) contrive suitable shuttering and fill the hole with concrete.

the crevices with mortar when pointing in the new brick(s) and the difficu= lty of cutting them to fit. C is most appealing because of its gap fillin= g properties.

I have replaced bricks in a cavity wall before. The brickwork forms a 'corb= elled' arch if you don't take out too many bricks horizontally at the top. = Probably you don't want to take out more than one brick at the top though m= aybe you could take out the two directly beneath it if they need replacing,= but you want to form a fairly tall 'arch' as it were, not a very flat arch= . You need to do your own homework on that.

Knock out damaged bricks if it is safe to do so then lay new ones in the us= ual way - the only difficult one is the one at the top - using mortar (soft= sand + cement, maybe 5:1 or so).

The top brick lay the brick in the void on a base of mortar laid in the no= rmal way, chop in needs a rather stiffer mix (less water) to fill the morta= r joint above the brick else as you puch mortar into the joint it'll all fa= ll out the back into the cavity.

This takes a little technique not to push it all out the back and down the = cavity. Maybe sharp sand would help instead of soft (I used sharp). You fin= d the mortar will 'lock up' at the back of the mortar joint if you are care= ful and you just gently pack more in with an appropriate bit of wood until = the top mortar joint is filled.

You *could* make up a sort of tool to back the mortar joint if that doesn't= work for you, even just a bit of mesh pushed to the back of the joint, lot= s of different possibilities...

Reply to
eeyore.is.here

remains). The socket pattress was held loosely in by plaster around its edges.

wall foam I have removed them.

I often get this problem in my house because the inner leaf is very poor brickwork. I've found that it is perfectly satisfactory to clean out all the loose debris and then use a filler/adhesive such as Gunnanail or Nomorenails, setting the backbox in it. If the side knockouts are knocked in a bit they provide a key. If the backbox won't sit in position put a length of ply or something about an inch wide over the hole, with the backbox fixed to it using the normal screw holes. The ply can be tacked to the adjacent wall if needs be. I've found that sockets fixed that way are absolutely firm. The filler should of course be below the wall face to allow for a bit of polyfilla.

Bill

Reply to
Bill Wright

that I can create a solid structure for the box to fix to - I don't want re= moval of a plug to pull the socket out of the wall. =A0 I can live without = the socket in this location. =A0 I do, however, have to leave the timer-spu= r that was fed from the socket

Sounds like you're making work for yourself here. just block the hole with any old bits of rubble plus 1:1:6 mortar, and stick the socket backbox in with plaster. No need to get rid of a socket.

Brickwork is interlocking, if one's missing it won't go anywhere

NT

Reply to
NT

Thanks to all for the variety of calm reactions and sensible solutions. I tend to assume the worst :-)

I think that I will, still, delete the socket from that location and use the timer-spur to collect the cable ends. The socket was behind a bookcase and won't be missed. I will relocate it elsewhere.

Wish me luck

Rgds

Richard

PS are there any contra-indications concerning contact between filler foam and PVC cable?

R
Reply to
RJS

tend to assume the worst :-)

timer-spur to collect the cable ends. The socket was behind a bookcase and won't be missed. I will relocate it elsewhere.

PVC cable?

You may be thinking about the problem where *polystyrene* foam draws the plasticiser out of PVC, making the cable insulation brittle so that it fractures and "shorts" if it is deformed. This typically used to happen in insulated ceiling voids and lofts where the cables are not usually well fixed down, so that later modifications move cable some way away. I'm not aware that polyurethane (expanding) foam does the same, but in any case it is likely to be immobilising the wires here so that even if the insulation all fell off it would not matter.

Reply to
newshound

Thank you.

Having started filling the hole today I decided to investigate relocating b= oth 13A socket and timer spur and found that I was able to pull the ring ca= bles supplying the 13A socket back under the floor. This means that I can = relocate socket and spur timer with ease. Thus my concern about filler fo= am affecting PVC cable is irrelevant. However, yes, I was thinking about p= lasticiser migration so thank you for the info.

Rgds

Richard

Reply to
RJS

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