rebates, dadoes, and dovetails

[Stephen]

What's a pocket cutter? Wouldn't a forstner bit drill the necessary hole?

[Stephen]

Thanks for your long and detailed reply. I am very grateful so many people have taken the time to type such long and helpful replies. My instinct was that I should go with the square rebates and work my way onto dovetails later. I appreciate what Pete says: you won't know, and won't learn, if you don't try, but I think perhaps I will route them square this time.

Thanks, Stephen.

[Stephen]

Thanks for yet another long and informative reply.

Why does everyone seem to dislike 6x1 PSE? Doesn't that have the advantage that it would not need capping?

I have used block board before though and would be happy to do so again but I think it is about £25 ex vat per 8'x4' sheet around here. Is that reasonable?

I think you are the third person to suggest that, and I think I agree. No point trying to run before I can walk.

Is this why the block board gets recommended: because it's a constructed board? Are all the strips completely dry before the board is veneered?

I have no idea about moisture so I'll look out for those books. It sounds as if I use pse, the bookcase could dry out and become triangular or something!

Thanks. I think a book or two would help me learn more and these suggestions come just in time for Christmas!

Thanks, Stephen.

[John Rumm]

ISTM most of the palm routers/trimmers are fixed speed. Given the small cutters I am planning to use, that does not bother me particularly. I will also only be using it on wood.

Yup that does sound like a bit of an own goal...

Yup, understood. There are plenty of jobs where plunging is of no real benefit though and adds weight and complexity. Short of the plunge base adaptor for the Dremel, very small plungers are quite rare... Trend T3 perhaps.

Have you got the alternate bases for it to do things like inclined cuts? I was wondering how useful those are? (having said that axminster's price for the full kit of often cheaper than other dealer's price on the basic machine alone)

[John Rumm]

You might find that many such merchants carry a small amount of "hardwood" in the form of window boards, and cills.

Its probably worth just getting stuck in a making something - its a learning experience if nothing else, and a bit of wood stain or varnish can make even pine look respectable (from a distance anyway!) (apols to any pine furniture fans)

Appearance will govern what you chose to a fair extent. Price is another big factor.

[John Rumm]

Nothing intrinsically wrong with it...

It gives you a fair few shelves for the money, so quite cost effective.

There may be some voids in block board - this coupled with the counter direction grain of the veneer surfaces helps reduce the amount of swelling.

Most movement in "real" wood is across the grain - so allowing things to move in that direction can save problems with splitting or distortion etc. A bookcase built all from the same stuff, with the grain all running up and down or side to side ought not suffer too much from differential movement. It gets more complicated when you have elements with grain running front to back as well - especially if they are restraining something with grain in another direction.

[dom]

A thicknesser doesn't get rid of twists - you just end up with a thinner board with the same twist.

The planer can take them out, but that takes skill and patience - not likely the timber merchant will do that.

[dom]

Yes, comes with a couple of alternate bases, including an inclined one, but I haven't needed to use it. The big asymmetric plate one is useful to give better balance sometimes.

[Tim W]

I know you have a lot of advice already but believe me I know what I am talking about.

If you want to have fun and get a good result I wouldn't even think about routered joints in a bookcase that small. It isn't necessary, it won't look better and if you are using PSE it will be difficult to do because the boards will be slightly cupped. Dovetailed housings are just bonkers in a job like this - do them only for fun if you wish.

I would use pse because it is pleasing to work with, won't need four coats of paint, is stiff and versatile. Screw the bookcase together with good big screws, letting the heads in with the right size bit and cover them over with a glued plug of timber you cut yourself with a plug cutter. It's like boat building, simple, strong and handsome. Some glue in the join wouldn't go amiss either. Strengthen the piece with an upstand at the rear of the top shelf or a plinth/pelmet below the bottom shelf, or with a back of white painted hardboard nailed on . You can also use big round nails as steel dowels, drilled in from the outside and covered over with a bit of wood, but screws will pull the bits together better.

If you want to have fun with a router then use it to cut some mouldings or chamfers, or make a nice curve on the shelf fronts, something which will look good. Putting the bookcase together will have been so easy you can spend your time makeing sure it is well finished. A badly finished piece will annoy you every time you look at it so sand out any burn marks, scrape off glue stains and use oil, paint, stain or varnish as you like, but with care and patience.

HTH

Tim W

[Andy Dingley]

Bought one earlier in the year. I think the collet problem (I'm not the only one) is on recent production. They seem to be too brittle, so they have a habit of cracking into four. I've had two go on me so far. Miles Tools have them as spares for about 8 quid, but Bosch service don't give a damn. Probably best to never tighten the nut (even finger tight) unless there's a cutter in there.

I bought it for two reasons, and it has let me down on both, so I'm hardly a fan of the thing.

First was an edge trimming job with a composite benchtop - too fast, overheating and burning. I had to root out an ancient "light dimmer" to speed control it.

Second was because I wanted a US-style barrel body (i.e. non-plunge), like the larger Bosch with the wooden handles. However the fine depth adjust on this thing is a tiny screw in a partial contact with a light alloy nut. It's clumsy to use and I expect it to wear out rather too soon. OK for green Bosch, but it's not why I paid blue prices.

The fence is too crude (for the pricetag) Flimsy, bendy, no fine adjustment thread.

Some American CNC people are using them as motor heads in home- constructed CNC routers for profiling MDF. The Apress book (not a great buy) describes this. Some found the same problems I've had and found it undersized. Those who kept things small report the motors failing after a few months' use.

I'm now using a Festool with the side handle. Just gorgeous.

I also bought a Triton this year, and that's another piece of shit. _Lots_ of backlash, so you can forget accutrate plunge depth. You also have to dismantle it and take the plunge spring out if you use it inverted in a table. Otherwise (with both weight and spring acting the same way), it can break under the extra force!

[Andy Dingley]

Softwood. More of a problem is the likelihood that you're buying it from a construction-based builder's merchant, not a cabinetry timberyard.

If you want to make real furniture, you need to find a supply of real timber. This is probably the hardest part of the whole deal (second only to workshop space). It's worth looking though, as it's also much cheaper to get the good stuff from a real place, rather than crapwood from a builders' merchant.

Wow, that's cheap. That's cheap for thicker crapwood or MDF.

Actually no - the strips in blockboard are lengthways, so they do still move a little widthways. Plywood, chip or MDF don't move.

Timber expands with increasing moisture, but not uniformly. It doesn't move noticeably lengthways, and it moves twice as much tangentially as radially. So when plywood is made with alternating plies, it's held in check by the lengthwise fibres.

(Read Hoadley for the rest)

Doesn't matter. Kiln dried wood is drier than its equilibrium with the atmosphere. When you use it, it will become wetter and thus expand. This changes between Summer and Winter too, moving back and forth. It takes several years to cease doing this (approximating both).

Some softwood, notably larch, will not only shrink or expand, it can twist too.

[John Rumm]

Any chance of using a different brand of collet or is it too specific to the machine?

Most of the palm routers i have looked at seem to be fast and single speed... although that may not be a problem for my planned use - it seems a bit of a missed opportunity.

The many seem to lack fine adjustment at all. The Makita just has a roller the help slide the body up and down a bit in the sleeve as best I can tell.

That's a shame...

I rather like the look of their MFK 700 set edge router. Looks rather nice for profiling etc. Not so keen on the prince mind you:

I also bought a Triton this year, and that's another piece of shit. What the big orange porky looking thing?

I tend to leave my Freud FT2000E in the table - works quite nicely there.

[stuart noble]

No, it's not blockboard, it's strips of pine glued together.This kind of thing

everywhere in a variety of sizes. Looks like solid wood but much more stable.

[John]

Try these

made some shelves using these. For the wood, I used pine window shelf which has a round edge. It's just under 1" thick and supports books over about 600mm with no sign of sagging. I rebated the strips into the uprights for neatness but they can be surface mounted. My shelves were built in so didn't need a back but others Ive built simply used a hardboard rear panel to provide stability. These days I would probably use thin plywood. I wood use real wood for the shelves. I've found that any resin bonded product sags over a period of time.

John

[Andy Dingley]

Yes. Interesting design, lots of nice touches, but the manufacture doesn't like up to the promise.

I thought I'd be doing the same, but I think I'll probably (manyana) make a new insert to put the Triton in the table and use my Freud hand- held. Or just get a another Freud.

[John Rumm]

I made some shelves using these. For the wood, I used pine window

Yup, if you make a proper case and don't need any rigidity from the shelves these make a nice job of it. No problems with seasonal movement of the shelf either.

You can always add a deep lipping at the front - looks quite "posh" and also added significant sag resistance to a cheap shelf.

[Stephen]

No, the cill I bought was pine too ;)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who isn't a big fan of pine. I know some people like the rustic, knotty, look but not me. Still, with a bit of knotting solution and some paint I suppose it could be hidden away!

Thanks, Stephen.

[Stephen]

> I made some shelves using these. For the wood, I used pine window

With my dvd "bookcase", I know the height I need for the shelves (= dvd height plus finger room) but for a bookcase where you don't know how big the books will be, these could be useful to allow you to change the heights, just like the Billy bookcase.

I am just a little surprised though: I thought these rail systems were not liked in this group or am I get mixed up with something else?

Thanks, Stephen.

[Stephen]

>Available everywhere in a variety of sizes. Looks like solid wood but >much more stable.

Thanks. They call it furniture board. Yes I have heard of/seen it at B&Q. Thanks I'll look into it.

[Stephen]

No problem.

I had read recommendations for the Bosch here before but I've never used it, so what would I know!

The router I bought, which I appreciate is a different class all together, is:

bought it a couple of months ago but never knew what to do with it until now!

I'm sure you will tell me off and say I should have bought a smaller, lighter model, and may be you are right to say so. It seemed to be the best router I could find under £100.

It seemed to have a good range of speeds and take both 1/4 and 1/2 inch collets, so a jack of all trades! I realise it would be better to have a good one of each but for a beginner testing the water, I thought it was a good compromise.

The description explicitly says constant speed under load, implying there is some regulation of speed. I don't know whether all clones have this but if they do, none of them boasted about this in their descriptions, so rightly or wrongly, I thought this was special. I'm sure I read that constant speed was important.

Since then SF have introduced cheaper models and I am sure the supermarkets offer their equivalent from time to time so I don't know whether I've paid twice as much as I should have, if it is just the same as all the other cheap ones, or whether it is a good budget model.

Too late now but I can always upgrade if I am encouraged by my results.

One thing I notice is that the adverts for routers always talk about cutting kitchen work tops. I've never done this so I don't know. Why is a router best for these? Why not use a saw of some sort?

Thanks, Stephen.