Realistic claims for solar pv

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Don't some still use wind in addition to their engines? To save on fuel costs?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Disallowed under EU state assistance rules. Yet another reason to leave.

[John Rumm]

No, I am suggesting that its unwise to opt for a solution that only has a limited reduction effect, and once implemented, will make it much harder to achieve any further reductions - thus taking the option of "nothing" off the table.

Especially when you consider we already have existing proven technology that goes straight to "nothing" in one hit.

[TOJ]

JOOI who designed and built our existing nuclear power stations?

[Pancho]

That's not quite true.

Presumably you install wind and solar massive overcapacity. The gas backup only has to match capacity and only has to be actually used when the actual generation from overcapacity wind and solar falls below capacity.

Zero net is achieved by biomass and gas carbon capture.

I'm not saying any of this is sensible, just theoretically possible.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

But "we" don't have such technology. We'd have to buy it in. Nor is the latest technology 'proven' either.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Probably the same as used to build our ships, trains, cars, motorbikes and electronics?

[John Rumm]

Yup.

Yup that's a fair - I was being sloppy with my terminology. You don't need to backup all the installed overcapacity - just the actual proportion of it that matches your maximum demand (and a bit).

In theory...

Indeed. Many of the suggested fixes for storage etc are theoretically possible and would work on small to medium scale. Its only when you try scaling them to grid level they turn into staggeringly difficult problems to solve and implement! Even if you manage to capture all the carbon from burning gas (and keep in mind a significant contribution to the gas carbon footprint is released in its extraction, transportation and storage, not just when its burnt), what do you do with it then?

(to paraphrase harry "nobody knows what to do with the waste (CO2)")

[tony sayer]

Which shows Harry that you have a poor to nil concept of power provision;(..

Mind you thats much the same as the average politician..

And FWIW wind today at 14:29 is 0.30 GW or 0.82% of the UK demand..

See if you can open this up its the wind thats blowing right now..

[Tim Streater]

This is the Soviet model. Build many more planes than you actually need, because maintenance is rubbish and your fleet of *working* planes is far less than you've built. A massive waste of society's resources. The same applies to massive overcapacity for wind and solar (your words).

Which is most of the time. 80%, in fact.

Biomass. Fine if, for the UK, you want to cover Wales with a monoculture.

Gas carbon capture. Much talked about as if it exists, which it doesn't.

Belling the cat is theoretically possible, too.

[tony sayer]

You wont see anything of sense from the politicos as IF all the global warming issue is true then the changes needed aren't going to get any votes at all..

Here's one for starters at the moment 3 GW solar, f*ck all wind and 55% of the UK power is from fossil Gas, so what are you going to do to replace that with a non fossil carbon supply???

[Tim Streater]

So, next to nothing across Portugal, Spain, France, UK, Italy, Western part of Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Balkan countries, Greece.

Now, harry, what is this East-West grid of which you speak?

[Tim Streater]

Nuclear.

Obvs.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Why has it got to be all or nothing, Tony? We don't run generating plants flat out 24/7 now, do we?

[tony sayer]

In article [e-mail]>, Dave Plowman (News) [e-mail]> scribeth thus

Yes we do when they are on line else there're not that efficient.

Anyway thats beside the point. Right this moment the UK demand is 37 GW most of that is from Gas at 21.4GW coal is nil wind is .77 GW, solar is fading down for the day at 1.5 GW the rest a max of imports and storage and nuclear.

So what's to replace the 21.4 GW of Gas Dave?...

[tony sayer]

In article <010520191457524562% [e-mail], Tim Streater [e-mail] scribeth thus

Yes you know that I know that more informed members of this board know that Greenpeace won't see it extinction rebellion ?, dunno what they think but it is non Carbon interesting.

However seeing how much palaver there is getting one built etc might be cheaper to throw another cable or two to France and borrow one or three of theirs;)...

[tony sayer]

Glassify it and bury it deep its not impossible just theres a lot of FUD on the subject..

[John Rumm]

Well that's a legacy you get from listening to green nimbys for decades after being world leaders in the field...

We buy in all the renewable generating kit as well.

You don't have to have the latest, just working.

[2987pl]

Only a few wanky cruise ships.

Actually to suck suckers in.

[2987pl]

Not incapable, just makes more sense to use those who have been doing it for decades to make some for you.

No cap in hand involved. Britain is getting them to competitively bid for what Britain has decided it wants to have.

Who are

And it remains to be seen if they actually achieve that.

And

Not even possible.