Realistic claims for solar pv



But "we" don't have such technology. We'd have to buy it in. Nor is the latest technology 'proven' either.
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On 01/05/2019 13:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Well that's a legacy you get from listening to green nimbys for decades after being world leaders in the field...
We buy in all the renewable generating kit as well.

You don't have to have the latest, just working.
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And you really blame that on green nimbies?

All so easy, isn't it?
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 02/05/2019 11:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

No I blame our loss of expertise in large scale nuclear power plant on that. Pretty much like I said above.
As far as I am aware, we don't have a long and industrious history of solar panel production or wind turbine production. Hence like any other manufactured product, you buy it from whoever makes it at a price you are willing to pay.
Also many renewable technologies are heavily dependant on a number of rare earth elements, of which 80% are currently mined in China, who also do 95% of the refining, so it ought not be too surprising that when lots of the manufacturing is concentrated.

No, building large scale nuclear power generation is difficult, it takes time and planning, and lots of money. However if you invest that time and money and get a standardised / modularised design that can be built (and later decommissioned) with *relative* ease, then it does get cheaper and easier with time. Others have made that investment, we haven't. Hence we buy theirs.
We do still have world class expertise on small modular propulsion style reactors though - hence why we can roll those out far more cost effectively and also export them. There does seem to be some effort going into re-purposing those for commercial power generation:
https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-and-services/nuclear/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
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Quite. At one time the UK would have been in the forefront of new technology like that. But not since manufacture or anything not software based became a dirty word.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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wrote:

That’s a lie with heavy aircraft engines, wings and portable nuke reactors and with TV docos and drama too.
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On 02/05/2019 14:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Its frequently the nature of any advanced economy, labour prices, business taxes, energy costs etc here are too high to make manufacturing cost competitive unless you are talking about very high tech, high precision stuff. However that does not stop us selling the design expertise, or systems integration etc.
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wrote:

Yes you do.

You already do that with most technology, particularly with mobile phones and computers and the renewable power generation.

Just as true of the renewables.
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On 30/04/2019 15:51, John Rumm wrote:

That's not quite true.
Presumably you install wind and solar massive overcapacity. The gas backup only has to match capacity and only has to be actually used when the actual generation from overcapacity wind and solar falls below capacity.
Zero net is achieved by biomass and gas carbon capture.
I'm not saying any of this is sensible, just theoretically possible.
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On 01/05/2019 13:06, Pancho wrote:

Yup.

Yup that's a fair - I was being sloppy with my terminology. You don't need to backup all the installed overcapacity - just the actual proportion of it that matches your maximum demand (and a bit).

In theory...

Indeed. Many of the suggested fixes for storage etc are theoretically possible and would work on small to medium scale. Its only when you try scaling them to grid level they turn into staggeringly difficult problems to solve and implement! Even if you manage to capture all the carbon from burning gas (and keep in mind a significant contribution to the gas carbon footprint is released in its extraction, transportation and storage, not just when its burnt), what do you do with it then?
(to paraphrase harry "nobody knows what to do with the waste (CO2)")
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wrote:

That’s not accurate. We know what to do with limestone most obviously.
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This is the Soviet model. Build many more planes than you actually need, because maintenance is rubbish and your fleet of *working* planes is far less than you've built. A massive waste of society's resources. The same applies to massive overcapacity for wind and solar (your words).

Which is most of the time. 80%, in fact.

Biomass. Fine if, for the UK, you want to cover Wales with a monoculture.
Gas carbon capture. Much talked about as if it exists, which it doesn't.

Belling the cat is theoretically possible, too.
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On 01/05/2019 14:34, Tim Streater wrote:

Also tractors, combine harvesters and orange carpet remember, all 'socially useful'.
The More4 series Deutscheland86 is well worth watching on more 4 if anyone has missed it. It may be drama, but I suspect it is quite close to the truth.
In last fridays episode, one of the party 'leaders' has suddenly noticed that background radiation as measured by his thermionic-valve equipped meter is four times higher that normal, after hearing reports on foreign news stations of high readings. He tries to stop a colleague from eating fresh strawberries, and wants to know what stocks of iodine are held and if they can be handed out.
More bigwigs then arrive and pour scorn on his meter, suggesting that he gets a better soviet one, pointing out that the last thing they need is a panic and everything is 'normal'.
Then later in the program someone rushes in to the meeting to say Gorbachov is on the TV announcing that Chernobyl is in meltdown.....
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On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:28:13 +0100, Pancho wrote:

That's if you are obsessed about PV solar (which conveniently is also the only solar you can sell to the grid).
Now if it was a case about being *serious* about solar, rather than a greenwashed ponzi scheme, you'd be using solar panels to directly heat water and then keep that stored in your hot tank for used whenever - thus reducing your gas/electric consumption.
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On 30/04/2019 14:29, Jethro_uk wrote:

The point is in the UK we use most energy in the winter.
So yes piping hot water in the summer. I don't know about you but I spend very little on hot water.
Solar power is an excellent idea, but not in the UK.
The point I find irritating is that I'm not seeing sensible energy policy from anyone important.
A bit like Brexit, politicians would rather twiddle their thumbs than make a good long term decision that would cause problems for them in the short term.
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On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 15:01:20 +0100, Pancho wrote:

Used to. I'd be curious how much air con has changed that. (Plus the sales of gas for patio heaters ....)

To be fair, it's not a breakdown I've considered ...

Not as things stand anyway ...

I agree furiously !
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On 30/04/2019 15:01, Pancho wrote:

Even if you use 100L every day of the year, that usually only works out at under £150/year in gas... That kind of throws many of these multi thousand pound schemes for solar hot water into context.
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On 30/04/2019 16:02, John Rumm wrote:

Plus up to £150 standing charge :-(
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On 01/05/2019 22:02, Andrew wrote:

Which you would be paying anyway assuming you want CH...
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ook.com> scribeth thus

You wont see anything of sense from the politicos as IF all the global warming issue is true then the changes needed aren't going to get any votes at all..
Here's one for starters at the moment 3 GW solar, fuck all wind and 55% of the UK power is from fossil Gas, so what are you going to do to replace that with a non fossil carbon supply???
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