Re: Voting students

Ah, I'm sure Rod said "anywhere in the country". Maybe I mis-read "constituency" as "country". Voting at any polling station in the constituency is a *lot* less of a logistical nightmare ;-)

Ah, I'm sure Rod said "anywhere in the country". Maybe I mis-read

> "constituency" as "country". Voting at any polling station in the
> constituency is a *lot* less of a logistical nightmare ;-)

It is, but even country could be manageable. Australia has 151 Divisions for the House of Representatives (lower chamber) and 76 Senators, just over half of whom come up for election at each time (as I understand it from Wiki). That's far fewer constituencies than we have.

Also 89% of Australias live in urban areas, so although Australia is the 3rd least densely populated country in the world, the actual number of ballot papers that have to be sent 'home' for counting will probably be quite small - they might even be counted at the state or division level and only the results transmitted to the home count centre. They probably have fewer polling places too.

Keeping track of 150 x 'foreign' ballot papers sent to every polling place all over the country is probably more challenging; the obvious way now would be some form of print-on-demand if a polling place has to produce a 'foreign' paper.

Inetresting to see how it is all done in practice though.

Owain

I used to be anti ID cards but I have come to the conclusion that they are the answer to illegal immigration, which makes the UK such a draw, apart from the language.

Jonathan

Likewise.

I am so used to having an "unofficial ID card" in the form of a driving licence (which is used for confirming my ID in many situations, nothing to do with driving) that I can't see what the fuss is about people being required to have an ID. It needn't be a legal requirement in the sense of being prosecuted for not having one - all that is needed is to make its use essential in modern life, so if you don't have one, lots of doors are closed to you. Having an ID card (of whatever form) seems to be such a small price to pay for being able to vote, open a bank account etc,

Maybe I'm just a boring law-abiding person, but I can't see any reason for

Doesn't it depend on what sort of ID is required and why.

But why are those doors closed is what needs to be asked.

Why do I need a higher level of secirity to go to a pub or club in islington than I do to vote in the next GE. or referendum. ?

For certain things yes, but is there a difernce between an ID card and your passport and driving license.

Nothing to do with law abiding,or are you saying people with ID cards don't commit crimes.

Well I can.

That's really a question for the venue owners, especially when you look up the advertised features of those ID scanning machines, see e.g.

#Paul

It's the council that have set this up.

doubt it.

It's not connected to anything else.

I was talking in general terms, not your specific instance. I can think of one event/venue with an ID check machine, but no discernible requirement for ID checks on either the venue (or event) licence. The policy wasn't even "We must see ID", it was actually "We must /scan/ your ID, and (I think) also take your photo" - decline the ID scan, and you aren't allowed in.

Just out of curiousity, do you have a link to where Islington Council (I think it was) specify this ID policy?

If you read that web page (and ones for similar machines), you will see that checking for fake/flagged ID's is explicitly one of the claims; again remember that I was talking in general terms & not your specific case. If you get very bored and real up on pubwatch (and similar schemes), you will see that some owners have an interest in excluding certain individuals (perhaps for behaviour, or dealing, or whatever), and use such machines to help identify them (or any fake ID they might be using). And, at the same time, the machine owner and/or manufacturer can help themselves to keep and/or analyse whatever data generated they think they can get away with.

If your venue has such a machine, perhaps you could add to the general hilarity of the occasion by asking them for their privacy policy, and check their compliance with the GDPR :-)

#Paul

Think I've tracked it down a little more and the cause of the councils concerns.

Ta. But what I really would like is something on the Islington council's website that states the *actual* policy, and what venues it applies to. For example, if you search up the premises licence for some random venue of more or less the type under discussion, e.g Electrowerkz, it doesn't say anything about an ID check being required. But presumably there are licensed venues that never have the "ID" policy required, or only sometimes, ... but how do we know which is which? Where would we find the relevant "ID" conditions being applied for either some given venue (or event)? I'm a bit surprised hard information is so difficult to find.

NB: There is a PDF report findable on Islington C with a draft policy covering 2018-2022, but that only says ID requirements are a possibility, and not that they are ever required by default.

#Paul

That would mean islington council knew what they were doing and why.

... but how do we know which

I was too, but Electrowerkz do ask for ID because the council will close them down if they don't record the ID's of those going there.

You won't get in without one. I know of someone that a few months ago went there traveling from outside London but she didn;t briung her correct passport she had the old one, she had a new one but left it at home, they wouldn't let her in.

I've now found the current 2018-2022 document. It says "Specific measures, depending on the nature of the venue, may include: ..." after which is a list which includes "ID scanning".

Since I am forced to guess, I suppose how it works that Islington never explicitly stipulate "ID scanning" anywhere in writing[1], and perhaps never even put it down in writing on a licence when granted[2]; but somehow an application is never sucessful unless it states that ID scanning is in place. *If* this were the case, I would have a pretty low opinion of their processes; if they make it a requirement, they should be transparent and state it clearly - both to applicants, and (after granting it) to the public via the licence itself.

#Paul [1] Assumed since I cannot find it (although I am happy to be corrected) [2] E.g. Electrowerkz

The FACT is that you can't gain entrance without a valid proof of ID that has a picture. This also goes for a number of local pubs including wetherspoons who seem to put this system in place after about 7pm, accodring to a few peole who I know that have gone to a wetherspoons after 7pm in islington. But as venues have the right to refuse addmision to anyone as do pubs in general it doesnlt really matter. I might be going to the O2 in islington in May and checking there it says.

------------------------------------------------------------ My ticket says that I need Photo ID to gain entry but I don?t have any?

If your tickets state that photo ID must be presented to gain entry to an event, then we cannot guarantee entry without this.

If you do not have photo ID, please apply for an ID card online.

If this is not possible, please contact the venue directly to see what else may be accepted as ID.

--------------------------

OK, just to be clear, I was never disputing your reporting. It just happens that I was interested in getting a clearer picture of where and at what stage in the licencing process the requirement is imposed. And much as I'd like to blame everything on you, I strongly suspect that would be unfair. :-)

#Paul

That's OK, I've tried finding it myself and so have a few others. But when you're talking to councils and the like it's rarely clear.

I ounce complained that a club was letting women in for free but men had to pay, they dismissed that situation and didn't agree with me that it was sexist. A month later it was 2 cocktails for the price of One, but NOT 2 beers for the price of one. While I can't prove that such a thing is more aimed at women than men... I did ask what the definintion of a cocktail was and was told it's a mix of two types of alcohol and mixers. So I asked for a 'hairy chest' which is a Pils lager, vodka and blackcurrent but was told that isn't a cocktail. In another pub in chingford on ordering a 'hairy chest' I was told it was classed as a cocktail and they don't serve cocktails, but would serve me a pils and black, and a seperate shot of vodka.

It would, but I usually find ways of geting around such things. Last time I handed over my passport it was actually out of date by 6 months they either didn't care or didn't check, but I did have a utility bill in my pocket just in case.