re-painting French-style windows

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh do shut up.

Yes, they are using Flash, Jules.

Yes, Flash needs a bit of CPU.

If you are using gnome/iceweasel/totem here is a list of plugins you need. Some are best got from nonfree repository if using debian..

For all Beeb audio /video ========================== DivX web player Helix DNA plugin:Realplayer G2 compatible plugin Java plugin MozPlugger 1.10.2 handles quicktime and windows media. Quick-time plugin 7.20.2 From Totem. Shockwave Flash

Leastways thats whats in mine, and it works. Full screen is not good tho. Needs more CUPU /graphics card than I have.

One of the Helix plugins that come as normal needs to be removed..just leave the one above.

Be aware that much content is UK only.

[Jules]

Land surplus that's at all useful / practical for rail use?

Yes, 'crowded' is very much a local thing indeed - but given the UK's existing land use, infrastructure and geology there's not a lot of space for a sensible* rail network.

• I very much liked the network, TBH - but it's hardly the best model if you need to get something from A to B in a hurry and at low cost :)

cheers

Jules

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well juts compare overall population density of ENGLAND rather than the UK with almost anywhere in the world..its VERY high.

Drivel likes his stats, but a quick look at google earth will tell you that most of scotland is empty, and why.

[Doctor Drivel]

You are confused indeed.

Again.............The UK is not crowded. Only 7.5% of the land mass is settled. The UK has land surplus. Not only that 5% of that is gardens and parks and open spaces inside the urban footprint. So only 2/5% is paved. England is not overcrowded at all. The Home counties are underpopulated. England is not a separate entity as the country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It says on your passport.

That is pretty clear. That means the UK is not crowded. Of course it is not crowded to Mars.

[Andy Champ]

This turns out not to be the case.

Taxes on private motorists cover more than the entire transport network. Not just the roads.

Andy

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher saying something like:

The manuals won't contain the unofficial servicing tricks that many maintenance men knew from the day they started the job, because they were clued in by others who'd been doing it for years. Certainly doesn't apply only to cars, either.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Remember overhauling a B-W 35 auto many years ago 'by the book' which stated you needed a special gauge to set the rear brake band clearance. Which of course was pricey. I contacted a nearby repair place about hiring theirs - and the guy said just use a 1/4" drill. I did and it worked just fine.

[dennis]

No several unofficial servicing tricks have been used in the airline industry.. like using forklifts to re attach engines to jets. Just who exactly agrees that these unofficial tricks are OK to do?

[Jules]

Exactly. And as the engineering gets 'coarser' (lower tolerances, bigger parts etc.) there seems to be more scope for unofficial fixes. The sort of knowledge about what *can* be done often doesn't get written down anywhere, but passes amongst those who work with the technology - until that technology gets replaced.

The people who have to fix these things daily, often in environments very different to the factories where they were made, and where assemblies have been subject to all sorts of wear and tear (less true of airlines - but I've seen all sorts of tweaks and patches done to steam equipment)

cheers

Jules

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home" saying something like:

What makes you equate stupidity (ie, your example) with knowing what to do correctly, with no risk?

[Steve Firth]

In what was was using a forklift to lift engines to wing pylons "stupidity"? It was fairly common practice at the time and not obviously "wrong" other than it not being a method recommended by the manufacturer. Which sums up the "tricks" that you and others are talking about, none of them are official techniques and none of you know for sure if the manufacturer chose not to recommend those "tricks" for the same reason that usign a forklift to position an engine was not recommended.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well we WERE the manufacturer..in one case. Marconi Radar

High voltage radar rack, equipped with a cutout to kill the EHT when the door was opened.

VERY hard to service when you cant hang probes on..and adjust whilst running.

Fortunately a sixpenny piece and a matchstick served to fool the interlock, and became 'accepted practice' for setting them up. NEVER was documented though. Just part of the shop floor folklore..

You have to distinguish between what the manufacturers don't want to support, or take legal responsibility for if some Muppet makes a hash of it, and what is actually very wrong and very dangerous. There is a huge difference between the two.

Which you simply don't seem to appreciate.

I.e. there is that which is specifically proscribed (don't dry your pet in the microwave), there is that which is officially sanctioned (use only products marked as suitable for microwave) , and a huge gap in between where it probably will work, with intelligence and understanding of the nature of the beast, and considerable care in its implementation. (Potatoes bake well. Eggs do NOT!!)

[Steve Firth]

Oh I appreciate that there are always idiots around who think that jamming interlocks is a really clever trick. You can usually tell who they are because of the missing gingers, curdled eyeballs[1], etc.

[1] A friend of my fathers who worked at Marconi who tried a non-standard "trick" of looking down a waveguide.

What you don't seem to appreciate is that things are proscribed for a reason. And from the sounds of it, YOU weren't the manufacturer you were a service tech.

[Steve Walker]

Some things are just impossible to fault find or set-up without overriding interlocks and the problem is that intelligence is needed in ascertaining which interlocks absolutely have to be overriden, which should never be and how to maintain an acceptable level of safety with the interlock(s) overriden - the intelligence is often unfortunately lacking!

SteveW

[Jules]

There is a certain amount of natural selection that comes into play when these problems crop up regularly, though - again, lots of these tricks and tips spread by word of mouth rather than being written down, and if they're in daily use then the vast majority of folk carry them out without problem (but there will always be the odd exception - albeit not in the majority).

The problem really comes I think years later when the technology is no longer widespread; nothing's been written down and the 'word of mouth' aspect has been lost. People then end up reinventing the wheel, failure and accident rates go up - as do the costs...

cheers

Jules

[Dave]

I can't see a risk in putting an engine on its mounting using a fork lift truck. The engine comes in a cradle that is designed to be handled by a forklift. The main thrust is taken into the wing via a thrust mounting, connected to the engine pylon and the suspension of the weight is taken up by adjustable links to the side of the engine. As long as the engine was not designed to be mounted inside of the envelope of the structure, there is no reason to use the cranage that is used by the book.

Dave

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember [e-mail] (Steve Firth) saying something like:

I would certainly never have recommended to anyone that using a fork truck was an ok method of installing an aircraft engine. There's far too much chance of an undesigned-for load being applied to an anchoring component, which is exactly what happened, iirc. When it comes to aircraft, you don't piss around with bodges, and that's what this is/was. You use the proper kit, except in an emergency.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Dave saying something like:

For mechanical handling. ffs.

And what happens when somebody inadvertently applies the wrong force to the engine when it's being mounted, or it isn't perfectly aligned, so it gets pushed round a bit? "Fuck it, that'll do", when used in a vehicle workshop, or even in front-line military service, is perfectly ok most of the time, but NOT on a civil airliner.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well steve, I have you the benefit of the doubt, but its plain you have no clue about which you spout.

I wasn't the service tech, I was actually there designing a very small bit of Sea Wolf.

The guys who were getting round the interlocks, were tasked with setting up the transmitters. Once installed in their racks, there was no other way to do it but 'live'.

Of course they worked on live chassis all the time. They after all designed and built them.

It was juts that once stuck in ships in Her Majesties Navy, they had to deal with people of almost as low intelligence as you, so they were put in racks, and made idiot proof.

So relax, and go with your paranoia. WE didn't look down waveguides, or laser rangefinders, either, nor did we push airguns up each others arses to see what happened. We knew pretty well what we were doing, oddly enough.

Now its clear that youy dont, so for you, the important thing is to stick to the rules, which are for the obedience of fools like you.

WE wrote them, knowing that wiser men than you, would know how to break them safely without having to have it spelt out in words of one syllable, using numbers no greater than ten, which we know you find challenging without taking your bootees off first.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think the point here is it depends on the quality of the people doing it.

There is always an ideal way using the idiot proof tool. Sometimes you don't have it though.

I've seen people smash crates with a forklift. Crates that were designed to be used with forklifts.

Conversely I've seen someone push an earth rod very carefully into the ground using a 3 ton digger bucket, perfectly, without bending..

When you get a cabne driver in, with a bit of help from a team mate, you can be better than inch perfect, you can almost be millmeter perfect if you know what you are doing. Conversely, it only takes an idiot like Firth with the best equipment in the world to welly something into place because they cant be arsed to line it up, no matter what is actually in use.

Its the difference between a skilled fitter and a car mechanic.