Random government monkeys accidentally do something useful?

At the time I was very unhappy that the vote was called in 2016, Public opinion was rising against the EU, and it looked like there was going to be a vote in order to lose it deliberately and silence the Brexit movement. For a generation.

By a fluke, leave was actually more popular. And the establishment s*it their pants.

The majority waited for it to be implemented. The remainers tried every single dirty trick - and still are.

The EU wrote a 'deal' that essentially tied the UK to the EU forever and Theresa May tried to get it through.

Boris buggered around with it just enough to force it through but it was a very very bad deal indeed.

And still is. But now everybody is talking about 'leaving the ECHR' for a start. And 'reforming nuclear regulation' .

But UK energy policy has been written in Brussels since 2000

And still is

Didn't they do the same somewhere else. Netherlands? Ah. Denmark. We didn't even GET a first chance on Maastricht IIRC.

"That this House notes the outcome of the professional public opinion poll commissioned by the Freedom Association which shows that 72 per cent. of Conservative voters, 76 per cent. of Labour voters, 73 per cent. of Liberal voters and 80 per cent. of those who support no party are in favour of a referendum of the British people on the Maastricht Treaty; further notes that young people are more in favour of such a public poll than those over 35 years of age; and believes that it would be contrary to the wishes of the people of the nation if the consequences of Maastricht were to be inflicted on them without their being consulted. "

And yet despite overwhelming support to at least put it to the vote, we didn't get one

In short democracy has never been allowed to get in the way of the EU ascendancy.

Heath lied about it. Blair lied about it.

The only person who appeared to be telling the truth was in fact Farage.

If accelerating the UKs nuclear capability had been punted as a concrete benefit of Brexit, even I would have voted leave.

My memory is if £350million a week to the NHS, sunlit uploads and free money. When that's delivered, we can revisit Brexit.

Vast under estimate, it was twice that:

I have never voted Labour.

It was clear to me that we would never have a sane energy policy if we remained. Leaving the EU is simply the first step on a long road to wrest the country away from those who don't live in it and don't care about it, and get it more or less functional again.

The next step was ditching the Tories. Now we are on the edge of ditching Labour as well.

Memory at fault. We have the £350m now and some of it did go to the NHS

I don't remember free money or sunlit uplands., Those were inventions of remain.

"We are committed to an energy policy designed to promote cleaner, more efficient energy use and production, including a new and strong drive to develop renewable energy sources such as solar and wind energy, and combined heat and power. We see no economic case for the building of any new nuclear power stations." Labour 1997.

I am please in hindsight that I did not start a career with BNFL when I was offered a sandwich place at Sellafield in 1986. As it was I got a gig with British Gas and learned a lot about the energy industry there. (Helped with trips to the CEGB headquarters to say "linepack" a few times).

OK, make that 'since 1997'

He was a great chap. He didn't mean to be, but after a drink or two, he was the only EU politician ever to show any sign of honesty. Not at all cut out to be a politician.

I think there is substantial number on Leave voters who are upset because didn't get the pie-in-the-sky fairycakes they were promised by a group of unscrupulous politicians. They didn't stop to wonder if those fairycakes were even possible, and didn't ponder the saying "The enemy gets a vote"[1].

No. they are upset because they didn't even get the basic separations.

the Deal - allegedly merely a realignment of trading terms, was weaponised along with Northern Ireland to prevent the UK from gaining any competitive advantage over the EU in anything. In short to nullify any possible advantages it might have brought.

This was EU policy and fully endorsed by the conservative party apparatchiks. But not by the conservative party grass roots which is why they threw out Theresa May,. And put in Boris, But Boris didn't care. He still traded away freedoms for a trade deal. Liz Truss was a convert to Brexit, so they stitched her up completely. And put in apparatchik Rishi, who promptly lost the election.

Remain and the EU have destroyed the Tory party and guaranteed the success of Reform

I think its you who are in fantasy land with the fairy cake EU. Because you Believe, and don't think for yourself, you think that everyone else is like that and its merely a matter of *telling them what to believe*.

And Brexiteers were therefore *told what to believe* and that was in fact, wrong.

Whereas it was in fact *you* who were told what to believe, by the EU by the BBC and the Guardian ...

...and you cannot accept how big a fool they made of you.,

We didn't until they made it clear that they were. And admitted it.

"When the going gets tough, you just have to lie"

Whine

It's nothing but whining and whinging isn't it ? You got your Brexit, get over it. The entire country was told before the vote there was no way everyone could possibly get "the" Brexit they wanted. And so it has come to pass.

Maybe think it through a bit more next time. Not that there will be a next time.

It is never wise to project your own behaviour onto others.

People who voted to leave know exactly what they voted for, and since they didn't get it, they will be voting for Reform in the hope they will get a little more of it.

Because it is entirely possible that they will get more of it.

I myself wanted an independent energy policy. It looks like I may finally get it. Politics is not about yah boo ra ra. We won you lost. It is about putting pressure ion decisions makers and playing the long game to try and steer the ship of state away from the iceberg.

ROFL. After listening to the comments made by Joe Public about todays budget, I seriously doubt that a majority of Leave (or Remain) voters really did understand what they were voting for.

Utter bollocks. Everyone (apart from you) accepts that Hinckley Point C is massively over budget because of *UK* changes to an established design.

We now know that millions of pounds are being spent to prevent a relatively tiny number of fish from being sucked in. That requirement didn't come from the EU, nor did the massive increase in the amount of concrete and rebar insisted on by the *UK*, over and above what was deemed safe across the channel.

Not in the past 12 months but some of the previous polls have asked people if they are satisfied with the Brexit outcome and the overwhelming answer was no. When a supplementary question was asked "do you want to rejoin the EU" the majority still said no.

It probably would have helped the remain campaign if a bunch of unscrupulous politicians hadn't decided on project fear rather than fighting their case on any advantages of staying in the EU. When both side embark on negative politics the British public are likely to say a curse on all your houses. Even after Brexit it didn't help any sensible discussion by the remain side branding all those voting leave as Sun reading bigots.