Quality of garage door fitting?

[treenoakio]

Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for

700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing this was because it was an insurance job.

-- Regards, Dick Treen

[Rod]

I think that I would be in touch with the insurance company.

Can anyone confirm that anyone doing such electrical work would require Part P? If so, you might be able to chase them up through that route.

[ARWadworth]

The company avoided part p by using an extension lead and not fitting a fused spur from the CU next to the door.

Adam

[Rod]

Would that be sufficient? I mean, they *have* fitted a fixed electrically powered device/appliance - though unsatisfactorily. (Leastwise, I assume it's not portable. :-) )

[Andy Hall]

Have you paid?

If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is < £5000) to get the situation rectified.

[Andy Hall]

Have you paid?

If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is < £5000) to get the situation rectified.

[Andy Hall]

Have you paid?

If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is < £5000) to get the situation rectified.

[treenoakio]

I think the insurance company just "want" to pay, not to project manage.

I think Part P has some bearing on the situation. Good job Part P doesn't restrict the use of extension leads too, or we might be looking at a team of hamsters

-- Regards, Dick Treen

[Harry Bloomfield]

[e-mail] was thinking very hard :

Most of these doors can be fitted inside, outside or across the door opening. Did you ask them to fit it inside to give a wider opening?

They are professionals, you have the right to expect a professional result.

No doubt they have never heard of Part P, so the idea was simply to save themselves time and trouble. Insist it is done properly and in compliance with Part P.

Seems excessive, even for an insurance job. Could you you indicate to the insurco that you are in dispute with the installer over an unsatisfactory installation and could they without payment for the time being until it is resolved?

[treenoakio]

No, not yet. I have a banker's draft ready to hand over but I'm not going to do it until I know the job's finished properly. I may even change the method of payment now I've experienced some dissatisfaction and also communication difficulties. It's not a great feeling withholding payment but it beats the alternative by a long way.

I don't look forward to going into recorded delivery letter mode but my phone calls and emails aren't getting much response. Does Special Delivery have useful features?

I think I'll return the banker's draft to source and pay by Visa instead.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a decent job done and just hand over the money?

-- Regards, Dick Treen

[treenoakio]

Yes, I did but it's a fairly standard practice and it should still have been done properly.

I think you're right. The fitters told me that they used to cable from the Consumer Unit but not any more. They said the boss told them to try to convince customers that extension leads are OK. They also claimed that customers usually accept this. I find that difficult to believe, unless most customers get charged considerably less than =A32000.00

I think they are aware of it but find it an inconvenience. Apparently the boss is a sparks and will eventually be coming around to do the right thing, reluctantly it seems

The insurance people have agreed to the job at that price in principle and are just waiting for a receipt from the supplier before they pay out. If I can manage to get a decently finished job, perhaps we'll all end up happy. Roll on.

-- Regards, Dick Treen

[Harry Bloomfield]

[e-mail] pretended :

Once the bill is paid in full, it will be very difficult to get them to return to rectify defects. Until your complaints have been resolved to your full satisfaction, ask them to hold back at least a worthwhile part of the payment.

I paid £450 for a 7' x 7' door to install my self a few months ago, that is an electric insulated panel one with full remote control - I would expect an installer to pay substantially less for similar. Which gives some idea how much of the £2000 is labour and profit.

[The Medway Handyman]

Communication is the problem here surely? I've 'avoided' Part P on quite a few occassions when fitting new security lights. I've done so by clearly saying that I can't run a new circuit to the light, but I could run a cable & terminate it with a 13 amp plug (suitably fused), which can be plugged into a nearby switched socket outlet.

As long as the customer understands this & agrees before hand there isn't a problem.

Having said that, if it wasn't specified in advance & the boarding does sound like a bodge job, I can see why the OP isn't happy.

Under promise, over deliver.

-- Dave - The Medway Handyman

[Andy Wade]

This does not get round Part P. The Approved Document is quite clear on the point - see note (h) on page 9.

[ARWadworth]

But note (i) just below it says you can.

Either way it seems that the garage doors are notifiable.

Adam

[Andy Hall]

Either way, hooking up what is intended to be a permanently installed electrical system with an extension lead is not a workmanlike solution.

[Andy Wade]

Unless you're feeding it from a circuit in a kitchen or special location.

But just adding a fused spur to an existing circuit in a garage isn't, and that's probably all that was needed. Of course 'not notifiable' doesn't mean Part P does not apply. The work still has to be safe, and therefore needs to be installed by someone with some Clue about what they're doing, and tested.

Clearly that didn't happen in this case of a misguided attempt to sidestep the regulations. The result is a much lower standard of installation than would have occurred prior to Part P coming in. Exactly what some of us here predicted would happen.

Another Part P nonsense I heard about recently is this. A friend's son and his partner had new a washing machine delivered, and had ordered 'installation'. Electrical connection of the old m/c was hard-wired, with an above-worktop switched FCU feeding a flex outlet below the worktop - or some similar arrangement. Installer-man turns up, connects the plumbing and drainage, then pronounces the electrical connection arrangement to be "totally illegal". "No I'm not allowed to connect it to that, and nor are you." With that, to add meaning to his words he removed and pocketed the fuse _and_fuse_carrier_ from the FCU and buggered off. A case of theft, surely. (FAOD this would have been like-for-like replacement so wouldn't have constituted electrical installation work within the meaning of the act in any case.)

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