Pump to move rainwater butt water up about 15ft ...

Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed from our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which will feed both toilets (I am estimating >50% of out water goes down the pan, and yes they're both dual flush).

Because we are in a bungalow, we will need to pump the water up to the loft. If I put my butt (ha ha) at garage level, it'll be c 13-15ft from the bottom to the loft.

Anyone suggest any problems with this scheme, and possible sources for a pump. It needn't be fast, just suited for running outdoors.

Thanks in advance

Reply to
Jethro
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A search for 'rainwater toilet' on google led me to this document

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looks interesting.

Peter

Reply to
Peter Andrews

There are definite problems there.

  1. Your bungalow roof is unlikely to be rated to take a tonne of water.
  2. Youll have whiffing water in your roofspace
  3. Youll need to plumb cold mains to the tank to top it up when rain is short.

I would suggest a rather better approach:

  1. Put water tank on ground, or even underground if you prefer it out the way
  2. Fit float switch to cisterns
  3. Fit small pump and pipe to tank, pump powered by float switch.
  4. Turn the flow right down of the mains ballvalve fill.

Now: no structural problems no water storage whiffs mainteance is all at ground level and easy bog automatically fills with mains water when no rainwater no mains plumbing

Typically 50% of house water is used in toilet flush.

NT

Reply to
bigcat

And just how are you going to power this 'pump thingy', hand pump, wind pump, solar panel driven electric motor ?....

Very wise to cut the cost of your water bill, assuming you are feed via a meter but please oh please cut the 'going green' bullsh*t.

Reply to
:::Jerry::::

CUT Doubt if you will cut down your water bill, as all rainwater belongs to the area water company. If you discharge any water into a drain or sewer it is managed by them and they want paying for this treatment. How do you intend pumping the water into the loft, by hand pump, electric power or diesel, Not very green is it.

Reply to
keith_765

Not answering the pump question, but have you got some kind of filter arrangement? You probably don't want moss and leaves clogging your tank, pipes or cistern valves!

I have recently installed a garden irrigation system from scratch - I don't want my sprinklers getting smegged up with crap off the roof, so here is what I have done.

I have two 1500 litre barrels (formally use for shipping fruit juice!) These are interconnected and used as my main holding tanks.

Water off the roof is fed into a smaller barrel (Usual garden butt type) via one of those pond plant baskets, filled with gravel - this filters all the big bits out.

In this smaller butt, there is a pump with a float switch (£25 from Netto if I remember correctly!) This pumps the water into the big barrels (Height difference of about 4m)

There is then another pump (Much higher pressure) in one of the big barrels (not the one the pipe from the smaller one enters, to reduce smeg!)

After this pump, there is an in-line filter to catch smaller bits

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5th thing down
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me know if you would like any more details!

Sparks...

Reply to
Sparks

It might be worth checking with the local water company.

There was a case a few years ago where a pub was on a water meter. The landlord decided to set up a system that collected rain water from the guttering around the pub and used it to flush the urinals.

The local water company threatened to sue the landlord of the public house. I can't remember why or the final outcome or whether the water company had a valid claim.

Graham

Reply to
graham

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You can have your water charges reduced by using this sort of arrangement. If the water is above the toilets then you can have it supply these too. Best have a changeover mechanism that switches over to the mains when the tanks are dry.

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Reply to
Doctor Evil

Why not have this filter on the line from the small Netto butt to the two large barrels to prevent any debris entering these. Cut out the debris at the earliest stage. It saves having to clean these out.

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Reply to
Doctor Evil

Didnt know about this! I am not currently on a meter, but am going to install one myself to see how much water I am actually using before switching (AIUI I can get the waterboard to install one for me free, and have the potion to switch back, however, this means the mext owner of the property will have to use this meter - and as the next owner may well be me (It's me ma's!), I may not want this!

If the water is above the toilets then you can have it

Unfoutunaly they are not (But I could use the irrigation pump I suppose, it's abot 2 bar!)

Sparks...

Reply to
Sparks

This is very true, I will probably install a second in-line filter, just to make sure any smeg that may have grown in the barrels does not get into my sprinklers!

Sparks...

Reply to
Sparks

What do you mean by cistern and tank? Where and what is what?

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Reply to
Doctor Evil

You need permission to put rainwater down a sewer (regardless of what you used the rainwater for) in most areas. You can be charged extra for doing this. In the two cases I know of, they didn't charge any extra, but these were both cases of simply connecting the rainwater gutters directly to the sewer in areas where that wasn't normally done, so it was just increasing the water content in the sewer, not the sewage content.

I guess they would want payment for the sewage treatment. This is normally based on the water supply usage, on the basis that this mostly gets used for flushing waste into the sewer. Actually, the sewage treatment charge is normally significanly higher than the equivalent water supply charge.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Water bills are on par with heating a house now. Cutting out the garden watering and toilet flushes will probably drop consumption by well over half per ann. Running a low wattage pump to run it is well worth it.

How does it cut water bills? Are you serious? You use less through your meter? Many water companies will reduce your water charge per cu meter if you have rainwater harvesting as you don't put rainwater through the sewers. You use the sewers less.

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Reply to
Doctor Evil

Most homes in the UK are charged for water using a rating system. Water charges are for water and sewage - supply and discharge. A water meter can be installed free of charge. The average new home, now has higher water charges than space and water heating. People will go to great lengths to reduce heating bills, yet totally ignore any measures to reduce water consumption.

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to taps mixers and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is require to perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing water consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With flow regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres per minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers. An unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a comfortable shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.

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sell flow regulators.

The pub. The water meter charge is for supply and sewage. Now he is getting water from his roof and putting right back down the sewer. He is using the sewer with water not purchased from the utility. In short, not paying for the use of it.

If you don't put rainwater down the sewer and use rainwater for flushes and washing machine then you may get a reduction in the water rate per cu metre. Rainwater can overload a sewer in a flash storm. A roof collects a hell of a lot of water and can fill a 4000 litre tank up quickly. Approximately

100m3 of water falls on the average detached house per year.

A pre-made system consists of a large tank sized to store 12 weeks of usage to cope with a drought. They can be easily retrofitted in most homes with a garden and pay back in about 6 to 8 years in a two bath detached house with

4 to 5 people.

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Reply to
Doctor Evil

The man doesn't know the difference between a tank and a cistern. Sad but true !....

Reply to
:::Jerry::::

As I understand it, Tank = primamry rain-water storage Cistern = the thing that holds the water just before it us flushed down the toilet

Reply to
Sparks

Most homes in the UK are charged for water using a rating system. Water charges are for water and sewage - supply and discharge. A water meter can be installed free of charge. The average new home, now has higher water charges than space and water heating. People will go to great lengths to reduce heating bills, yet totally ignore any measures to reduce water consumption.

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to taps mixers and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is require to perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing water consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With flow regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres per minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers. An unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a comfortable shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.

formatting link
sell flow regulators.

The pub. The water meter charge is for supply and sewage. Now he is getting water from his roof and putting right back down the sewer. He is using the sewer with water not purchased from the utility. In short, not paying for the use of it.

If you don't put rainwater down the sewer and use rainwater for flushes and washing machine then you may get a reduction in the water rate per cu metre. Rainwater can overload a sewer in a flash storm. A roof collects a hell of a lot of water and can fill a 4000 litre tank up quickly. Approximately

100m3 of water falls on the average detached house per year.

A pre-made system consists of a large tank sized to store 12 weeks of usage to cope with a drought. They can be easily retrofitted in most homes with a garden and pay back in about 6 to 8 years in a two bath detached house with

4 to 5 people.

_________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download

formatting link
to open account

Reply to
Doctor Evil

Most homes in the UK are charged for water using a rating system. Water charges are for water and sewage - supply and discharge. A water meter can be installed free of charge. The average new home, now has higher water charges than space and water heating. People will go to great lengths to reduce heating bills, yet totally ignore any measures to reduce water consumption.

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to taps mixers and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is require to perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing water consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With flow regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres per minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers. An unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a comfortable shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.

formatting link
sell flow regulators.

The pub. The water meter charge is for supply and sewage. Now he is getting water from his roof and putting right back down the sewer. He is using the sewer with water not purchased from the utility. In short, not paying for the use of it.

If you don't put rainwater down the sewer and use rainwater for flushes and washing machine then you may get a reduction in the water rate per cu metre. Rainwater can overload a sewer in a flash storm. A roof collects a hell of a lot of water and can fill a 4000 litre tank up quickly. Approximately

100m3 of water falls on the average detached house per year.

A pre-made system consists of a large tank sized to store 12 weeks of usage to cope with a drought. They can be easily retrofitted in most homes with a garden and pay back in about 6 to 8 years in a two bath detached house with

4 to 5 people.
Reply to
Doctor Evil

Most homes in the UK are charged for water using a rating system. Water charges are for water and sewage - supply and discharge. A water meter can be installed free of charge. The average new home, now has higher water charges than space and water heating. People will go to great lengths to reduce heating bills, yet totally ignore any measures to reduce water consumption.

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to taps mixers and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is require to perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing water consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With flow regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres per minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers. An unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a comfortable shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.

formatting link
sell flow regulators.

The pub. The water meter charge is for supply and sewage. Now he is getting water from his roof and putting right back down the sewer. He is using the sewer with water not purchased from the utility. In short, not paying for the use of it.

If you don't put rainwater down the sewer and use rainwater for flushes and washing machine then you may get a reduction in the water rate per cu metre. Rainwater can overload a sewer in a flash storm. A roof collects a hell of a lot of water and can fill a 4000 litre tank up quickly. Approximately

100m3 of water falls on the average detached house per year.

A pre-made system consists of a large tank sized to store 12 weeks of usage to cope with a drought. They can be easily retrofitted in most homes with a garden and pay back in about 6 to 8 years in a two bath detached house with

4 to 5 people.

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Reply to
Doctor Evil

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