Plumbing kitchen waste into soil pipe?

[dmc]

Ok, I admit defeat.

The kitchen plumbing that I've posted about before is getting worse and worse and despite loads of caustic soda, Mr muscle foaming stuff (expensive caustic soda I imagine) and some rubbish environmentally friendly stuff (well, it smelt nice I suppose) we are now at the state where when the washing machine pumps out water bubbles up through the plug hole :-(

I've tried poking and rodding it from both ends. No joy.

Looking at other houses in our terrace, what we used to have was the sink drain coming out through the wall, turning 90 deg and then down to an open gully and into the drains.

I've no idea where it goes then but it somehow goes right under the house and into the main drains at the front of the house. Unfortunately, the previous owner built a conservatory on the back covering this gully and poking springy drain cleaners down the drain I appear to get stuck about where this gully is/was. As whatever this is bunging it up is now under nearly 2 ft of concrete/floor I'm pondering giving up on this drain that has always been a pain and just running a new one. Given some of the other discoveries I've made in this house I wouldn't be surprised to find that he has just stuck a board over the gully and concreted it all in, drain grid and all :-(

I reckon if I could run a new bit of 40mm drain along behind the kitchen units somehow I could then go through the wall into the understairs loo and connect it into the soil pipe with one of those solvent weld collars. Hence my questions...

1) Are there any regs/rules/problems with connecting into the soil pipe like this? The connection would be within a ft or so of the toilet (a toilet that we don't actually use but thats not really relevant)?

2) any bright ideas for getting a 40mm pipe fitted behind the units in a kitchen with out pulling out the units? Lots of short lengths of solvent weld all glued up sounds plausable and I'm struggling to think of anything better. Under the sink is a 600mm unit, then a 1200mm gap where the dishwasher and washing machine sit (so thats easy). Then a small 300mm cupboard, a fitted oven and a 600mm drawer unit. So it wouldn't be a hideous amount of joints but still, I'm open to better ideas.

Cheers,

Darren

[TMC]

Never had much time for springy drain cleaners

Proper drain rod much better bet

Another option is to poke a garden hose down the pipe to the blockage and pack around the end of the pipe with cloths so that you can pressurise the pipe with mains pressure when you turn the hose on. Have had success with this. Done the same with a pressure washer pipe

Tony

[dmc]

It's the only thing I could get down from the kitchen end. It has to go down a 32mm pipe that exits through the wall into a just visable but inaccessable gap where I can just see a 90 degree solvent weld bend that then vanishes into the concrete.

I can get the springy thing around this 90 deg corner - and then it stops about 1.2 m further. Pretty much exactly where the gully would have been.

done that from the other end. I'm wondering if this isn't just "bunged" up as it all seems clear from both ends and given the amount of chemical warfare I've shot down there I'm thinking it's collapesed or something.

Hence my idea to just give up and plumb in something that is at least accesable.

Not tried with a pressure washer but tried this with a hose. Didn't seem to make much difference :-(

Cheers,

Darren

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 11 Dec 06 17:14:30 GMT someone who may be [e-mail] (dmc) wrote this:-

Contact the Building Control section of your council. They are generally useful on the subject of drains, which is something they know about.

Does this soil pipe run horizontally or vertically? Is it just a branch from a vertical pipe?

[dmc]

It drops straight down vertically throught the suspended floor and then through a 90 degree turn and then horizontally along, and then down into the ground where it connects into the drains somewhere under the house as anything put down it appears in the mainhole in the front of the house.

the main stack from the upstairs bathroom also goes into the same manhole

darren

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 11 Dec 06 20:55:17 GMT someone who may be [e-mail] (dmc) wrote this:-

Does the toilet have a P-trap or an S-trap?

If it has the former then it should be possible to replace a ninety degree bend with a tee and then take a smaller pipe upwards for the sink waste, with suitable air admittance arrangements.

With the latter it may be even more involved.

Without suitable air admittance it would be a bodge that was likely to introduce drain smells to the kitchen.

[Merryterry]

Of course making sure the hose is connected via a double check valve to avoid back syphonage from the drain into everyones potable water supply?

[TMC]

Obviously wouldn't use a hose without one preesure washer connected to main in same way

Tony

>

[dmc]

P I *think*. Can't check at the moment as the room is stacked full of stuff (as I say, we don't actually use it).

Hmm. I hadn't considered that. When you say air admittance would this need to be one of those caps on a soil pipe or would a small anti syphon thing do - I've fitted one of those in the kitchen already a while back to stop it gurgling

ie, would I need something like

would the normal inline anti vac gadget be good enough?

As I say, I can lift the floor and get to the soil pipe which runs back under the loo and then out. Is there anything actually wrong with just cutting a hole in this and using a strap on boss to connect my new 40mm in?

I was thinking of something like

Darren

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 13 Dec 06 20:35:47 GMT someone who may be [e-mail] (dmc) wrote this:-

What may be acceptable is a vertically rising smaller pipe, with a tee for the sink and then an air admittance valve. However, this is something to check with your local Building Control, their telephone number should be in the telephone directory.

I will stick with what I have already typed, but add that vertical drops of small pipes tend to fail the gradient rules unless well thought out.

[Doctor Drivel]

No, a HepVo trap on the sink. Fit the 4" tee. Reduce to sink sized pipe and another tee to act as a rodding point. Also take the washing machine trap down to the main stack too, not teed onto the sink drain pipe. You can tee into a 4" pipe as you asked as long as it is higher than the toilet and fit a HepVo trap. HepVo traps can be vertical in-line in a pipe and must be accessible.

As you don't have trouble with the sink or toilets or bath the gully side is probably OK. Just separate the sink and washing machine and run them separately to the stack. Use HepVo trap in each - these act as Air admittance valves. Make sure you have adequate rodding points. Have rodding tees not elbows. A direct rodding route to the gully is ideal.

[dmc]

Ah. That'll be the failing of my original idea then :-(. Still, Davids idea would resolve that I guess. To tee into the easily accessable bit of soil pipe would put the tee about 1ft below the loo outlet.

Yep. That wouldn't be a problem

The gully is the source of the problem (I suspect). It (or whatever is left of it) is now under the conservatory and is about where my rodding from both ends comes to a halt :-/ This is where the sink, washing machine and dishwasher currently drain to. Ideally, I want to give up with this and just run to a new drain - one that I could access in the future if the bloody thing bungs up...

I was hoping to run along the other way and T into the pipe from the downstairs loo but this sounds more complex than I hoped (which is what I suspected). I suppose I could just take out the loo - we don't use it anyway as there is no sink in there and no ventilation. Maybe that would be the simplest quick fix for now. It can be sorted properly if we ever want to reinstate the loo.

Darren

[David Hansen]

On Thu, 14 Dec 06 17:18:48 GMT someone who may be [e-mail] (dmc) wrote this:-

What is a ft? Perhaps it is some quaint historical term, like an oz?