Dishwasher waste into soil stack

[Richard Colton]

Not exactly a DIY question, but I (or more precisely my father) could do with a bit of advice.

About 18 months ago, my father decided to have the waste from the dishwasher diverted so that it drains into the soil stack. This was done due to a prior very long external drain that was prone to freezing during the winter.

Anyway, for a few days I've noticed a fusty smell in his kitchen plus lifting of the cushion floor, so I pulled the dishwasher out and discovered that the drain into the stack was not secured to the wall, and was pissing water due to the strain on the joints. In addition, as soon as I touched the piping, it literally fell apart and the remains can be seen at:

make matters worse, it appears that when the drain was attached to the stack, no kind of non-return valve was used. Now, when the upstairs toilet is flushed waste water comes out of the dishwasher waste.

This work was done by a plumber that my father has used many times before, but given the standard of workmanship, what are the panels thoughts for next steps.

The damage extends to the cushion floor needing to be replaced, the carcass for the sink is badly swollen (and probably from brown water at that), and the plaster is blown on the wall. The state of the dishwasher is unknown at this time.

I've taken a few pictures for your perusal and comments:

same plumber is supposedly coming tomorrow afternoon to "have a look", and I'd like some feedback prior to that if possible please and thank you.

[Tim]

for next steps.

It's pretty shitty work, literally. ;-). Hard to believe that he can have any plumbing qualifications.

I suspect that before taking any legal action one should offer him the opportunity to fix the problems and compensate your father but it would be entirely understandable if you didn't want to let him through the door again.

Tim

[David WE Roberts]

> To make matters worse, it appears that when the drain was attached to the

Check your Dad's house insurance; with luck he should be covered and this could pay for the replacement of kitchen units etc.

We withheld some money from a plumber because a compression fitting on the new hot water tank leaked all through our ceiling, and he was very shirty about it. Said we should expect joints to leak when a new system heated up and we should claim on the house insurance. Haven't used him since.

[fred]

In article , Richard Colton writes

Your last pic shows a trap, that is the non return valve, if that was part of the installation then that is acceptable practice.

Pic 7 appears to show a broken off pipe going to the stack, what has happened here? It takes a fair bit to break one of those, even a thin ABS one. Confusion though as the bucket of scrap parts are white and the broken stub part is grey. Was a joint used there?

No fixings used on the pipe at all at the dishwasher end, not even resting on part of the carcass? I can't see it lasting 5mins with nothing to support that length of pipe. How long is the pipe and how did it stay up for this long?

All other damage is as a consequence of the failure of the drainage pipework. If you can _prove_ it is due to an incompetent installation then you may have a claim. Get an answer ready as to why it could not have been caused by physical abuse either by your father or yourself.

While I would have done it slightly differently, I can't see anything wrong with the install other than the apparent lack of fixings.

Talk to the man.

Have you bunged up the open pipe going to the stack?

[Richard Colton]

Between a dishwasher and a soil stack?

Nothing whatsoever, it's not broken, that's how it was installed originally. The jagged non-straight edge is sawn.

The white u-bend contraption was shoved onto the grey pipe you thought was broken. The longer tube (in the bucket picture) was placed upright for the dishwasher drain pipe to be placed in. The combined weight of this assembly and the dishwasher drain hose has compressed the seals with the assembly itself meaning the seals are not water tight.

Nope. As you can see from the pictures of the wall, there are no holes where mounting points could have been. The pictures of the wall are where the dishwasher sat.

I'm more than a little surprised myself.

Oh, I don't know, I was going to go with something along the lines of wtf he didn't even bother to screw the bloody thing to the wall.

I've also got a bit of a problem with pissy and shitty water cascading out of the grey pipe - potentially into the dishwasher, and for the last few days/weeks, all over the kitchen floor.

I also have a slight problem with the pipe to the stack having been fitted in such a way that water is expected to run uphill.

He's coming after 2pm tomorrow.

I have now, yes.

[Richard Colton]

>>>>> To make matters worse, it appears that when the drain was attached to

He probably will be, but I was more curious as to whether the standard of work was below what should be expected of a professional plumber.

i.e. I don't see why he should have the hassle and expense of sorting this out through the insurance if the plumber is liable.

Quite frankly, he could do without this at the moment given that my mother died less than two months ago.

[fred]

Yes, that is normal. Some homes have separate soil and grey water stacks but it is fairly common (and usually permitted) to take a waste into a soil stack if no grey stack is near.

Wow, that's rough but out of sight . . . .

Ok, sloppy work but not a show stopper.

I see, that is much clearer now (I was having a problem with the arrangement and scale). Ok, now we know the trap was close to the stack which is good practice. Also it is good practice to put an upstand pipe on an appliance that can disharge a high volume of water in a short time (usually washing machines but can apply to dishwashers too).

Again, much clearer now, not a horizontal run but an upstand. No horizontal leg to pull on the joint.

Yes, there should have been a fixing on the upstand to stop it moving around. I don't think weight on the joint is an issue here but the dishwasher hose pulling at the upstand pipe by weight or otherwise could well have been.

TBH, it doesn't really look that bad, yes there should be a 'fall' towards the stack (1 in 40) but I have seen worse. What it does mean of course is that there is always a little water sitting on the joint as the end of the rough grey pipe, compression wastes really aren't that reliable (in the grander scheme of things) so it was a leak waiting to happen.

I expect somewhere in the conversation there will be a denial of responsibility plus a, "well, you must have pulled that pipe out with the hose", to which the correct response will be along the lines of, "as it wasn't fixed, it would have fallen off if I breathed on it".

Might be an idea to let him try to explain his way out of the situation, "this has leaked, how do you think this might have happened?" rather than step in with accusations and see if he digs any holes for himself. Then might be the time to point out that the upstand pipe didn't appear to fixed and could that have anything to do with it? And so on . . .

Good move.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , Richard Colton escribió:

I'd be surprised if he does show up.

[Richard Colton]

;-) He did though!

Plumber's son has been this morning (apparently it was his brother that did the original work). He has pretty much admitted that it was a piss-poor job and that the strain on the joints from lack of support is what caused the leak. He has re-plumbed it and secured it to the wall.

The next step is to speak to his dad about sorting the rest of the damage out. Given that my father has known him for a long time (he used to be his bank manager), I hold out some hope for a sensible settlement. We'll see what transpires.

I'm now giving some serious thoughts to changing all the base units (not the wall units) and all the doors and drawer fronts (on both the base and wall units). That should mean that one unit doesn't stand out like a sore thumb, and would update the kitchen quite nicely. Just need to find some sensible priced carcasses and doors etc. now. Any recommendations?

[GB]

When chipboard/mdf swells up like that, can you crush it flat again with a decent amount of pressure?

[Richard Colton]

Possibly, but given what could have soaked into the carcass, I'd rather replace it.