Pedal Cycles

[John]

Whanever I see bikes in Holland they always seem to give rise to a very diffferent riding position or stle to ours.

Is it the way people sit - or is there s difference in frame geometry?

[Chris Hogg]

ISTR they're mostly sit-up-and-beg types in Holland, popular in the uk when I was a kid, whereas nowadays they're all drop handlebars and you get a crick in your neck from trying to see where you're going.

[ss]

Yes they are more upright, I have ridden them over there and for some reason they seem to be much easier and less tiring to ride, maybe the geometrics or possibly better engineered and the flat country does help. Many though are now using electric bikes.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)]

Well there are a lot of different cycle frames and designs. Hard to be precise, but maybe its just that they prefer the ones they make. Brian

[Chris Hogg]

Back circa 1950, my parents' gardener had an ancient and much re-painted bike, probably pre-war vintage, that had drum brakes.

[Tim+]

I had a tandem with drum brakes. Truly terrible.

Tim

[Pancho]

A quick Google shows they still do them and unlike hub gears they don't appear to be massively overpriced.

I'm not aware of ever seeing one in the wild. Then or now.

[Andrew]

In a flat country ?. That really is lazy !. Residents of Bristol and Edinburgh are most likely to benefit from an electric bike.

[tabbypurr]

Sounds delightful compared to what I always called 'egg brakes'. Back pedalling distorted the hub bearing somehow, causing friction. But not much.

NT

[David]

I had a Giant "Dutch Bike" a while back and that had drum brakes front and back. Common n the Netherlands, I assume.

Cheers

Dave R

[soup]

Very much a difference in geometry :-

Sit up and beg type (Holland) Tend to have a better view forward and a more relaxed 'sit'.

The racer type (sometimes described as arse up [Britain]) give a more restricted view and more of a lean forward stance, however that is a more efficient pedaling 'sit'.

This efficiency is required when racing the Tour de France when 1st and

2nd are separated by a minute over the race. But a bit overkill when just popping to the shops.

Fashion, in Britain anyway, is for the more racing type bikes . Rather like there was a fashion for rear suspension (serious money unless you went for energy sapping/badly engineered ) mountain bikes that would never see a hill .

Maybe the more relaxed but not quite sit up and beg flatish bar commuter types would be a good 'half way house'

= Holland / sit up and beg Drops = British fashion / out and out racer Riser =Flatbar/commuter

The flat bar can be fitted with auxiliary 'horns' to give a sort of Bullhorn effect

Aside :- Own bike; mudguards fitted, rear rack fitted, horns/bar ends fitted, mirror fitted (pretty damn [but not entirely] useless, shoulder check still required).

[T i m]

My solo hybrid / MTB has drum brakes, perfectly adequate, as do the Pashley Pronto / Mailstars. ;-)

The tandem has rim brakes.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Never seen a 'Mailstar' Post Office delivery cycle with the large tray on the front?

Cheers, T i m

[Thomas Prufer]

Yes and yes: in Treznal its called a Holland bike. Heavy, solid, often steel not ally, chain completely enclosed in a chainguard, large mudguards, rear wheel partially enclosed, hub gears or no gears, etc.

Perfectly evolved for short trips around a town or city in a flat country. More comfortable to sit up straight. Bent over the handlebars gives less air resistance, and more power, both not prime objectives of this type of bike.

Thomas Prufer

[Danny Colyer]

After 18 years of recumbent commuting, I disagree. I'd be reluctant to go back to an upright bike, mainly for safety reasons.

Recumbents come in a huge variety of styles, all with their own advantages and disadvantages. I might not choose to ride a lowracer in traffic, but a typical midracer, highracer, CLWB or most touring recumbents are absolutely fine for visibility.

Compare, for example, the Optima Baron (lowracer) and the Nazca Gaucho (highracer/tourer)

Recumbents are better for seeing where you're going (compared to most upright bikes that you'll see in this country), because the riding position naturally has the rider looking forwards rather than at the front wheel.

But the big safety advantage is in the extra braking power. The maximum limit of safe braking on a bike is the point at which the rear wheel starts to lift off the ground. While I did once manage to lift the rear wheel on my Street Machine in an emergency stop, you can brake a lot harder on a recumbent than on an upright bike before that happens. Taking a cropper is simply not going to happen.

[Steve Walker]

I had a German bike for a while and the back-pedal brake was extremely efficient - indeed it was necessary to be a bit careful to avoid locking the back wheel. As a kid, that was of course great fun! I think that the only reason that it had that brake was that the bike could be split in two by removing a single screw (with a handwheel head) for storage or transport and so (along with the rear light having a spring contact at the joint) there was no need for any cables between front and rear halves.

SteveW

[Pancho]

I can't actually remember seeing a post office delivery cycle, in the last few years, but I take you point that the bikes are out there and I am unobservant.

[T i m]

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:57:08 +0000, Pancho [e-mail] wrote: <snip>

Well, tbf, they haven't been current nationally for a while (some remote Postmen may have kept them) and even when they were, they sorta blended into the backgound, like postboxes.

It may also be one of those things that if you have one yourself you see them everywhere. ;-)

So far I've stripped, cleaned and rebuilt two of the SA 3sp gear hubs with drum brakes and they are quite interesting.

One advantage of the drum brakes (I have had them on my MTB / Hybrid for years) is that you don't wear the rims out as you do with rim brakes and they don't seem to get so wet / dirty as disk brakes can do.

Cheers, T i m

[newshound]

But they do quite decent distances with everyday loads, and ordinary pensioners still ride. It's not all Lycra Brigade over there.

[John]

They seem high geared yet effortless.