Party wall dispute - who pays?

[Tony Bryer]

No, I could take you to several examples round here where the main beams run out to the hipped end of a semi and the beam end sticks up above the plane of the tiling.

[Tony Bryer]

There was the sad case of the house in Tooting where I designed a loft conversion only to find out too late (i.e. when the builder cut the pockets for the beams) that it had a 4 1/2" party wall. "We always thought that the neighbours were rather noisy" said the sad householder.

[Tony Bryer]

Until he phones up Building Control who fill him in on his rights ... and chats to the builders who tell him what they are planning. Your 'advice' is some of the most irresponsible I have ever read in this group.

[John Rumm]

I thought that once you had started work the PP would not lapse? The work you start does not have to be party wall related I would have thought?

[Andy Cap]

Where in *your* scheme is there any protection for the completely innocent neighbour, from having work performed on *their* property, which may have serious consequences for the structural integrity of their home ? There is clearly something wrong with your reasoning, if you have to be so deceitful.

Andy

[Owain]

Presumably it would work somewhere like it does in Scotland, which has lots of party walls (and floors and ceilings) in flats, and manages quite well without a Party Wall Act.

You can do what you like to your half of the wall/floor/ceiling provided you do not interfere with your neighbour's use of his half of the wall/floor/ceiling. The rights and obligations of support to neighbouring properties can be traced back directly to Roman law.

Owain

[Andy Hall]

Which does beg the question of whether this is yet another piece of legislation which attempts to address a problem that doesn't really exist, does so poorly and ineffectively because people don't know how to use it, and therefore achieves little or nothing.

I don't recall hearing horror stories of houses falling down prior to

1986 because of this.....

[Tony Bryer]

England and Wales outside the old London County Council (inner London) area didn't have one until comparatively recently.

[Tony Bryer]

It's one of those cases where most of the time there is no apparent benefit, just cost. But without the PWA if your neighbour sets about doing works that are likely to be problematic you can do nothing until actual damage is caused. At which point he will say that the cracks in your wall were there before he started work.

Operated sensibly, you give notice to the AO who gets his surveyor (who sensibly could be your surveyor on a small job) to review what is proposed, ensure there are no issues to be addressed agrees a schedule of condition of the wall on his side. That, inter alia, gives you protection against false claims of damage.

[Dave Baker]

If the boundary runs down the middle of the party wall then technically each person owns one half of it up to the boundary line. This is the situation that applies to most terraced or semi-detached houses and works done by one party on his side of the wall wouldn't be on the neighbour's property anyway. In addition the PW Act covers situations where work is done near a boundary and again not actually on the neighbour's property. His protection in law is what it always has been since before the PW Act came into force in

1997. Trespass and criminal damage if work is done without his consent on his property and a claim for costs if work done near a party wall causes damage to his property. The PW Act doesn't change any of that or in most cases give any additional protection compared to works done properly and with due care without it. What it does do is add a lot of extra cost like Part P and other similar legislation to try and prevent a problem that hardly ever occurs anyway.

[somebody]

In message , aboleth writes

Hi,

Yes you have to pay for any surveys done, expect around 250 - 300 each. You might get a better deal to have both side done on the same visit by the same surveyor.

I can't suggest how to deal with your uncooperative neighbour, but as you rightly noted if she doesn't agree then you are automatically considered to be in dispute. The procedure is well documented, but she must disclose this to her buyer or risk consequences for herself.

As an aside, I appreciate the cost of the surveys but they are there to protect both of you, not just your neighbour.

Imagine if two weeks after you finish the work, a neighbour pops his head up to point out all of his ceilings are now cracked, cracking plaster on the party wall etc etc etc.

I have a great neighbour who I get with very well, he was happy for me to go ahead without any surveys. Once I explained how it gives us both protection (even from future claims/owners) we agreed we'd have a joint surveyor at my cost.

Hth

[Hugo Nebula]

On Thu, 03 May 2007 22:20:39 GMT, a particular chimpanzee, Tony Bryer randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Things may different in Londonshire where you've had the Party Wall act for ages, but we in the sticks have only had it for a few years, so it's not pervaded our subconsciousness. I wouldn't presume to fill someone in on their rights; at best I'd send 'em a leaflet and tell them to see a Party Wall Surveyor.