Part P like-for-like replacement

[Jeff Layman]

Not having much luck with lighting at the moment. :-((

One of the three bathroom downlight bulbs went this morning - the one over the shower. It was a 12v/20w halogen bulb G5.3/MR16 fitting. I wondered about replacing it with an equivalent 12v LED, but there are reports of them flickering if used with a halogen transformer, and they aren't as cheap as GU10s . I guess they will get rarer as GU10s seem to be becoming the standard, and if I have to replace the transformer as well, that's an added expense.

So what about using a simple IP65-rated downlighter with mains GU10 bulb, and mains cabling to replace the low voltage cable (all in the loft)? I can't believe that is considered like-for like. Or is it?

[ARW]

2.25m high ceiling:?

[ARW]

Like for like IMHO.

[Jeff Layman]

2.40m.

[spuorgelgoog]

Well, if you take the old wiring out, no-one will be able to say what was there before, will they?

Owain

[Jeff Layman]

Thanks. Makes things much easier (and cheaper!). I'll check the earthing first... ;-)

[John Rumm]

So non notifiable from a part P point of view:

[Robin]

Just in case you have not come across them, these are cheaper than new fittings

and even cheaper but not heat resistant so only for LEDS

[Jeff Layman]

I'd seen that, but what about the wording there which includes "...or

2.25m from where a shower head attaches to a wall"? The shower head is attached to a flexible hose, which is attached to the mixer unit. Even if it is assumed the mixer unit is "where a shower head attaches to a wall", that is still well under 2.25m from the ceiling. Or is it a taken fact (from the diagram) that it only applies to a shower head rigidly fixed to the wall?

[tabbypurr]

Of more significance is whether the fitting can actually get wet. Clearly in such situations it normally can.

Ftting a new 12v bulb sure is easier.

NT

[Jeff Layman]

Indeed - even more so with a shower head attached to a flexible hose, where it would be possible to direct the jet directly at the fitting, rather than just get splashback from a fixed, downward-pointing head.

That was my conclusion until I started looking a bit further as to which GU5.3/MR16 LED and new transformer I should get. I guess this Q&A from Screwfix summarises the point. It is about using the Robus Electronic Transformer 35-105VA.

"The RM105D will work with huge amount of 12v LED lamps but due to the amount of LED lamps on the market and varying degrees of quality of the components you would need to test the lamps (there would need to be a few lamps to get over the minimum 20w required) to make sure it works.

This is the very reason that we stopped doing 12v LED lamps as not all transformers will work with all LED lamps.

I hope this helps you, if possible a move a GU10 will eliminate the need for transformers all together and would be better in the long term."

As I mentioned in my OP, there are a lot of reviews of 12v LEDs flickering with transformers intended for halogen lamps. From reading that Robus Q&A (and others), it would appear that even using LED lamps and transformers intended for them does not ensure 100% compatibility. I've got plenty of mains cable, and IP65 GU10 fitting aren't expensive. That's the way I will go.

[tabbypurr]

obviously this is a case where there are more important issues than that one, and going to 240v in an unsealed fitting is not going to be the better choice.

Sure. You're worrying about a possibility that hasn't happened and isn't a hazard.

NT

[Brian Gaff]

The question is, what might cause flickering. If one could identify why it flickers it might be possible to stop it. Brian

[Brian Gaff]

Shove a halogen from one of the others into that one and shove the led into a different one and see if it flickers, once they have all gone then you can decide if the led flicker is an issue or not. Brian

[Scott]

My problem now is that the main wiring is old colours. Unless I can get hold of red and black cable (which seems to be impossible) it is a bit obvious where the modifications have taken place.

[tabbypurr]

How is that a problem?

NT

[Jeff Layman]

Who said "unsealed"? My OP referred to an IP65-rated mains GU10 downlighter. Fittings like this don't even require an earth as they are double-insulated:

[spuorgelgoog]

The colour change didn't coincide with the date of Part P, and in any case "like for like replacement" innit.

Owain

[jrwalliker]

The old wire got cooked by close proximity to the halogen lamp, didn't it?

John

[ARW]

Fit one. You will be OK and it is the sort of thing we fit over baths and showers at work. Probably as that is where they are designed to to installed.

Have you chosen your LED lamp colour yet?

Warm white, cool light or day light.

Just that I swapped the gf's parents 12V spots to GU 10s a few days ago.

I had some GU 10 lamp holders with me but only a random selection of lamps. So I fitted three lamps of different colours to see which they preferred.

He wants cool white and she wants warm white.

They said that they would let me know the final choice when they have come to an agreement.

Two days later, without a response, I now suspect that it will be warm white lamps that I buy on Thursday.