Part P & connections to FCU's

[Jim Ingram]

Hi,

This question refers specifically to kitchens. If I was to wire an appliance few directly (i.e no plug/socket) into a sw FCU would I (or say a freezer repair man) then be able to disconnect it (and connect another appliance) without submitting a building notice or being a part P scheme member.?

Assuming the answers no. If I had a dedicated non-rcd circuit (for said freezer) could the freezer be connected by a plug/socket without falling foul of the sockets that could potentially be used for equipment outside rule.

Also (out of curiosity) whats the situtation with cookers. I'm sure I've seen it written that cooker now need to be installed by a niceic etc. electrician. Are we in some bizzare situation where I would be allowed to disconnect the cable from (inside) the cooker but not from the fixed wiring on/in the wall or is every appliance repair man in the country going to be part p enabled.

Thanks

Jim

[Andy Hall]

If the FCU is already there, then yes. You are not touching what is considered to be fixed wiring. If the FCU isn't there and you need to wire a circuit then part P applies.

If you had to make a new circuit or extend one that isn't currently in the kitchen into the kitchen, part P applies.

In order to deal with socket location - i.e. the socket is located where an outside appliance could be plugged in, options are

- Put socket in cupboard so that above doesn't apply

- Use an FCU

- Use a non-standard plug and socket.

I did the third of these using a plug and socket made by MK with a T-shaped earth pin. These are otherwise similar to normal BS1363 components but neither will mate with the other, so no freezer into standard socket or hedge trimmer into unprotected freezer socket.

Part P applies for fixed wiring work in a kitchen.

In short, this means

- work done and self certified by an electrician belonging to one of the approved schemes. NICEIC is one of these but far from the only one, despite what they would have you believe.

- work done by you or non guild member. Submit building notice and pay for this and possibly inspection.

Part P is for fixed wiring.

I doubt whether every electrician, let alone appliance repair man will sign up for it.

[Owain]

- provide an RCD equipped socket for the outside equipment

Owain

[Andy Hall]

You could, but the trouble is that all sockets that could reasonably be used for outside equipment are supposed to be RCD protected, so it becomes a bit expensive if you are going to do that comprehensively.

[Jim Ingram]

located

reasonably

comprehensively.

Thanks for the replies Andy/Owain. I guess its the interpretation of 'reasonably used' that I'm unsure about. There's probably about 8 rcd protected sockets that in my opinion would be more obvious to use. Does that mean I'd be OK with sockets for the freezer. As it happens I could very easily fit a dedicated socket outside by the F door if necessary.

I'm sorry to ask so many question but AIUIT since I put in a Building notice (to enlarge the kitchen) and started work prior to Jan 2005 I'm currently exempt from part P and I'd like to end up with an as Part P tolerant design as possible.

Thanks

Jim

[Andy Hall]

This is in Section 471-16-01 of BS7671 and the wording used is

"A socket outlet rated at 32A or less which may reasonably be expected to supply portable equipment for use outdoors shall be provided with supplementary protection to reduce the risk associated with direct contact by means of a residual current device having the characteristics specified in Regulation 412-06-02(ii) "

I resolved this by putting the ground floor rings and kitchen ring downstream of the RCD. I then created a radial circuit to feed the freezer outlet (used special MK socket) and a spur for the boiler.

Depending on the layout, I guess it's going to be a cost/time tradeoff between running a separate circuit and installing RCDs at sockets. If I was doing the latter, I would put the sockets near the front and back doors on RCDs and argue that that is "reasonable". I would be surprised if anybody inspecting the wiring would quarrel with that.

[Ed Sirett]

This is my undertanding.

1) Part-P always applies to all electrics but notification only to some work. 2) Direct replacement is not notifiable. 3) Appliance wiring is not notifiable.

4) The rule for sockets is they must be RCD protected (at 30 mA & this can be in the socket itself) if it could be reasonably expected to supply outdoor equipment. A common (dumb) interpretation of this is to say all ground floor sockets must be so. A smarter way is to assess the risk ( i.e. dedicated socket in a cupboard or behind an appliance is NOT reasonably expected to supply outdoor equipmemt. Likewise if there are outdoor sockets and/or a 'free' socket nearer the door then it's arguably unreasonable etc.etc.

5) A cooker can be exchanged without a notification, provided it is not a more powerful model than before.

6) Changing an FCU to a socket or v.v. in a kitchen is probably notifiable.

7) The enforcement of all this nonsense is next to zero except for new-build.