Painting Ceiling - Problem?!?

Hi,
I am a complete newbie to full on decorating. Previously I've been lucky that all I've needed to do is a bit of painting here and there.
I've recently moved into a new property that needs a LOT of work doing.
With the bedroom I'm working on at the moment, when we pulled the wallpaper from the walls (yes, it WAS that easy) it also caused the ceiling covering to come away at the edges. We wanted to re-do the ceiling anyway, so pulled all the ceiling covering off. That too came off real easy.
I then filled a couple of cracks, rubbed down any loose areas and cleaned the surface of loose dust.
When I then attempted to apply the new ceiling paint (a polycell product) with a foam roller, it appeared not to be sticking to the surface. It was being pulled off by the roller. I tried with a medium pile fibre roller and the same happened. Using a paint brush initially seemed OK. So I started to paint a larger area, with the intention of covering properly once dried. However, that too ended up causing the same problem.
Upon closer look, where the paint was coming off, it was not JUST the new paint coming off. There was a layer of something else (green - grey in colour) on the underside. So it would appear that whatever this layer is, the new paint is causing it to come away. This also leaves a yellow-ish surface underneath (which presumably WOULD keep the new paint).
Investigating further, scrubbing the surface "sort of" removed the offending surface covering. It comes of quite a nasty, sludgy, grey-green mess. Also, applying a brief spell of steam & then scraping seems to remove it, but not without making a huge dusty mess.
Could someone please tell me what this stuff might be & why the paint not only won't key to it, but infact pulls off the initial surface?
What would be the best way of dealing with this with minimum fuss (and prefereably mess)?
Sorry if this is complete basics, but I AM a complete novice. :/
Thanks, Simon
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SilentBob wrote:

How old is the house?

Distemper?
Plasterboard and lots of it.
Owain
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I think it is late 40s. But decor looks like 70s. :)

That has been suggested.

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SilentBob wrote:

They were still using distemper in the 1940s. In fact they were using anything they could lay their hands on, because of all the post-war shortages. You may find other "idiosyncracies" in the construction. ICI for example in 1947 were asking architects not to specify Dulux and Beldec paints because they weren't available.
Owain
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SilentBob wrote:

This is distemper,the only way is to line the ceiling.
I've tried all manner of ingrediants to shift it and still it comes through,however it don't show through the thick grade lining paper.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite




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The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote: >

Putting up any paper on a ceiling is a right pain in the ass, especially on this stuff. I would scrape any loose and visible stuff first then sand it with a rough paper and then give it a rub of light sand paper and then put white emulsion on slowly and carefully with a brush. Forget the roller for this job. A second coat may be needed and do it lightly again with the brush.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

I forgot to add that it may flake for a bit when painting it but when it dries out it will be ok.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

By the sound of what you're saying the ceiling going to look like the moon?
Line it I say.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite




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Yeah, I'd either go for lining paper - no it's not the easiest job, but neither, as long as there are two of you is it that dreadful. Scraping and washing off the distemper isn't going to be a nice job either - in theory distemper can be washed off by it's not pleasant and if over painted difficult. I'm with the Earl here - if it's flaking when you paint it isn't going to be good finish.
However if the condition of the ceiling is otherwise poor - too many cracks etc. uneven plaster etc. then I'd probably go the overboarding with plasterboard route unless you have attractive cornice you'd want to keep. A bit awkward by not terribly difficult if there are two to DIY it. A plasterer would be able to board it out and skim in day though. We did this in a lot of the rooms in the old house (built 1938) and it was money well spent for nice smooth ceilings that just need painting
--
Chris French


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chris French wrote:

my suggestion would take a few hours only and might work out fine. the alternative suggestions are both difficult jobs and lining paper can still be seen at the joints. Plasterboard over a ceiling sounds crazy to me unless you remove the whole ceiling.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

You could try sizing the ceiling with ordinary wallpaper paste. IME this stabilises powdery surfaces better than paint or pva, and I apply it routinely to anything that has been filled and/or rubbed down. Dust from plaster or filler seems to stay on ceilings long after you think you've swept it all off, and is absorbent enough to ruin the first coat of paint.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com writes

It might, but I suspect the finish will be on the por side, but i can't see the ceiling, nor know what finish standards the OP expects. Personally if I'm decorating a room I'm going to live with for anytime I like a good finish.

Not at all, it works well (I was suspicious the first time I tried it) Whack the board up, just use longer screws/nails to hold it in place. Saves a lot of mess and effort pulling down the ceiling. A bodge? Yeah probably a bit of one, but compared to taking down the ceiling in a lived in house it's worth it.
--
Chris French


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On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 01:45:24 +0100, chris French

Its not a bodge, double boarding ceilings is normal. Improves sound insulation and fire proofing to boot.
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SilentBob Wrote:

You say you removed the ceiling covering. If it was vynil then it woul have had a backing paper. Did you remove that as well
-- pebe
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It wasn't a vinyl covering. It was a textured paint covering, but it came off very easily in large pieces. It left behind a mainly smooth off white painted finish.When I applied paint it came off bringing withit a layer of what is suggested to be distemper. This sounds about right, as it is powdery but sludgy when wet. It is a green-grey colour. Where this comes off it looks to leave a smooth (dirty) yellow surface below.
I'm thinking that I could go with the sealing option. Would Emulsa-Bond be the correct thing to use (mixed with a normal emulsion)? And then, when dry, paint over in the ceiling paint?
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SilentBob wrote:

The quickest way is to have it skimmed. ;-)
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite




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SilentBob wrote:

Oh..juts slap some thinned PVA on it, or a lining paper. Your choice.
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Hi,
Thanks for the input. Other than the area that I tried painting, the surface is quite good. Hence, if I first smooth that area back down I may go for the sealing option.
A coat or two of stabilising fluid was suggested. The staff at B&Q juust gave me blank looks when I asked there. (even worse when I mentioned "distemper") However, I have found the following on Wickes website:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/606005
It says it's for exterior use, but would this be suitable?
I would then be painting over it with the following:
http://www.focusdiy.co.uk/invt/715669
Does this sound like a reasonable course of action?
Thanks for your help.
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SilentBob wrote:

3 people have given you the best option,you've ignored these options.
I told that I've tried most types of bonding,they didn't work,so it was a case of lining the ceiling. end of
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite




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I did mention in my very 1st post that I'm very new to all this. Never had to do much more than slap on a bit of paint.
I've never hung paper on a wall, let alone on a ceiling. I really can't see it going all that well. Certainly would end up looking a bit iffy.
As for the plasterboard option...! Seriously not sure that I'm up to that either.
I HAVE taken onboard everyone's comments in order to find the most suitable option for me and my situation.
I thank everyone for the input so far, and have chosen a route.
I have been polite throughout.
So why this rather rude & patronising reply?
Thank you.
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