Own brand wood treatments

wrote:

Well, I still have a source of the proper stuff (from a real ironmonger!).
--
Frank Erskine

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Andy Hall wrote:

I don't believe any of it slows the natural decay of wood (apart possibly from creosote), it just presents a more acceptable appearance. UV is the killer, and only opaque finishes offer any protection against that.
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This is so true. Having tried some shed stuff I was given once, I wouldnt use it again if it were free. It just isnt worth it.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Wood_Preservatives
NT
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writes

Does that include Sadolin's own water based stain? It claims 6 year life: Sadolin Quick Drying Exterior Woodstain
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla
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No idea. I have never used it. Generally, their products have a better solids content than others which is supposed to be one of the reasons for longevity. However, I would still only select a solvent based product.
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Dear Keith Re- own brands: All wood preservatives sold in the UK (and EC) are subject to the COPRegulations 1986 and to efficacy testing requirements. Such tests are pretty expensive and as a result many "traditional" preservatives have fallen by the wayside. This has meant that only larger organisations have survived in the production of active ingredients and formulations of these. Thus, all preservatives are and have to be "fit for purpose" and "safe to use as directed" so what you are getting is the result of bulk purchase and sale by a supermarked specialist. What does not seem to have been addressed in the trail below is to ask the following questions: Against what organisms do you wish to treat this wood? THIS is the key question when determining what preservative to use. Also What species of wood? Hard or soft? durable or perisable? permiable or impermiable? All questions which will result in an answer which is needed to decide the preservative to be used. Preservatives are used to protect against the following: Insect attack Mould Precursor soft rot staining fungi Fungal decay such as wet and dry rots UV damage
The active ingredients for these are different. To protect against insect attack you need an insecticide such as permethrin or cypermethrin To protect against fungi you need a fungicide and there are about 10 or so "regular" ones on the market and consist of heavy metal ions normally associated with complex organic molecules or simply boron based active ingredients To protect against UV you need a UV blocker Most decent coatings have some form of water repellant as fungi cannot survive in dry wood and if you keep the wood dry it will not rot, So, if you want to PRESERVE the wood (as oppose to protect) then you would best be advised to put on (in accordance with the instructions) a preservative and there are combination ones (Insecticide / fungicide) on sale. I would unhesitatingly go for an OS (organic solvent) based one and apply it only on a late afternoon of a sunny dry day when the wood is at as high a temp as possible. As it cools down the air within will contract and bring in more of the preservative to the inner parts of the wood. Lateral penetration into the side grain could be as much as a mm or two if the right product is used in the right way in a permeable softwood such as Scots pine. You would get very little penetration to most hardwoods. The application of more than one coat will increase the loading and protective effect. I suspect that what you are really after is a protecitve coating and as far as I am concerned after more than 30 years in the business I would go for Sikkens /Saddolins from AKZO Nobel. It will require re treating every couple of years but this can be done very very easily as no scraping or serious preparation is needed and it can be done with brush or spray. Chris
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Having used shed water based wood preservatives as directed, then watched little fungi sprouting from the wood whenever it rains, I can safely say it was not fit for purpose.
There are ways to convince people somethig is fit for purpose when it isnt. Playing with the definitions is one way. You are being rather optimistic imho.
NT
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On Jul 15, 12:12 pm, snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote:

Did you use it from new?
Why not name the product?
cheers, Pete.
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I dont know what that means. I could not have used it once it was used.

B&Q but I dont remember the exact product name. Doesnt matter though, I avoid all the water based stuff now.
NT
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wrote:

I have to say I agree with you entirely. I've just had about 500 yards of post and rail wooden fencing creosoted - or so I thought. The first 200 yards or so was done and we ran out of product - it was then that I noticed that the product was called 'Creotreat' (IIRC). Cross with myself I made enquiries and found a fencing stockist who would sell me proper coal tar creosote and finished the rest of the fence with it.
About 3 months later the 'Creotreated' fence has got the litchins and mosses growing again on the wood and most of the product seems to have been washed off. OTOH the creosoted fence still looks good with no crap growing on it.
Julian.
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Not suprised! :
<http://www.fmb.org.uk/publications/masterbuilder/june00/4c.asp
Usually the MSDS tells what 'goodies' there are in there...
Something like this would be a fair comparison with creosote:
<http://www.bartoline.co.uk/CREOSOTE%20SUBSTITUTE%20EBONY%20BLACK %20(05)%20Edition%201.pdf>
cheers, Pete.
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wrote:

Thanks, that's very interesting. I'll not be caught out again and tricked into using one of these ineffective 'modern' products!
Julian.
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The best way to treat existing wood is to prevent it from being wet all the time. New wood can be pressure treated.
If the fence is thin enough to dry out a few times a year it won't rot very fast if at all. The posts will as they don't dry out, even pressure treated ones. Putting them in a concrete shell keeps them wet so they rot quicker than if you dig a small diameter hole and pack it with gravel. Sheds need a good overlap on the roof to keep them dry.
If you don't like the colour of the old wood just dye it, its quick and easy.
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I'm sure that's true, I'll have a word with god and ask if he can keep the rain off my fences :-)

It's 15 years old minimum.

See my OP, it's post and rail to keep horses in, made from half round about 6'' dia.

Post and rail, you bang em in with a post knocker - concrete and gravel?? I suspect that's for your back garden stuff.

Colour is of no consequence, preservation is important, I don't think anything is better than creosote for my purposes. It also stops the horses chewing the wood due to its nasty taste.
Julian.
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Julian wrote:

Interesting thread. Anything as fine and penetrating as creosote has to be a health risk I would have thought. I doubt there's a mask capable of filtering the fumes, which linger in clothing etc. The fact remains that wood rots at the base, whatever it is, and whatever it's treated with. The gravel/cement mix should help in theory, though I haven't tried it yet.
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wrote:

Even wood soaked in creosote? ;)
cheers, Pete.
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wrote:

Fence posts for motorways treated to 8 kgs per cubic metre with CCA (before it was banned) had a design life of 50 years. Evidence to date supports a greater life expectancy. Fence posts rot at the ground interface as a result of a variety of factors Work was done by Ed Baines at Imperial College in the early 1970s that showed nitrogen (from salts) being preferentially deposited in the area just at ground level having wicked up the endgrain buried in the ground and evaporated as the post became aerated. This increase in richness of available nitrogen allowed the devolopment of precursor moulds and stain fungi, then soft rots and eventually various basidomycetes which rotted the wood. Wood that is anerobic (in the mud) will only have the pit membranes and other minor parts of the cell destroyed by bacteria and will remain largely intact - CV the Mary Rose Wood that is open to ventilation and below 18% MC (the post) will not decay.
The key to preserving fence posts is to protect the end grain from wicking and water if possible. The Romans used to char the ends in an attempt to do this (as well as vinegar and other attempts at preservative!) I have found that a good bitumastic paint, a dpm and IF the water table is not high the previously suggested gravel below to be effective but do use concrete at ground level. My hardwood poles of non durable but treated timber have lasted 25 years to date. My CCA treated soft wood (when I had to remove a post for other reasons) showed only very minor surface softening. Chris
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Chris George wrote:

Interesting stuff

I maintain paraffin wax is the best way to achieve this as it doesn't form a film which might be compromised as the wood moves, but is about as hydrophobic as you can get. I believe they use it in forestry to prevent premature drying of logs
My hardwood poles of

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You don't need patches to give up.. just duct tape over the mouth and nose.
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You do protect the horses from the stuff until its safe don't you.
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