Having used shed water based wood preservatives as directed, then watched little fungi sprouting from the wood whenever it rains, I can safely say it was not fit for purpose.
There are ways to convince people somethig is fit for purpose when it isnt. Playing with the definitions is one way. You are being rather optimistic imho.
NT
Did you use it from new?
Why not name the product?
cheers, Pete.
I have to say I agree with you entirely. I've just had about 500 yards of post and rail wooden fencing creosoted - or so I thought. The first 200 yards or so was done and we ran out of product - it was then that I noticed that the product was called 'Creotreat' (IIRC). Cross with myself I made enquiries and found a fencing stockist who would sell me proper coal tar creosote and finished the rest of the fence with it.
About 3 months later the 'Creotreated' fence has got the litchins and mosses growing again on the wood and most of the product seems to have been washed off. OTOH the creosoted fence still looks good with no crap growing on it.
Julian.
Not suprised! :
Usually the MSDS tells what 'goodies' there are in there...
Something like this would be a fair comparison with creosote:
cheers, Pete.
So that's a 'no' then?
Thanks, that's very interesting. I'll not be caught out again and tricked into using one of these ineffective 'modern' products!
Julian.
Stuart I may be wrong but am pretty sure creosote has been banned for general use since 2003 and can only be used under certain professional circumstances, probably railway sleepers and telegraph poles and the like. I am pretty sure (but by no means 100% certain) that the products sold as creosote-like have absolutely no relationship to creasote proper in that all the said active ingredients worth having have been removed! As a fan of creosote, with its 200 odd active (many carcinogenic) ingredients, for its efficacy I am not altogether sad that it has been withdrawn for amateur use as it was a particularly unfriendly sledgehammer envirionmentally speaking... chris See this link
Dear Dennis I have been in the wood-preserving field for some decades and am unaware of any field tests published to this effect I am aware, having worked with both Dr Bravery and Dr Carey at the BRE that not inconsiderable data do exist to show that, provided the loading of the preservative is adequate, creosite does in inhibit fungal growth See, for example
Its the same no as in smoking.. there is lots of evidence that say some of the cancers are caused by the product but its difficult to say which ones. If you want to ignore the evidence then that's up to you.. use creosote near me and I will do what I can to prevent it.
There is also plenty of evidence that painting anything with creosote is a waste of time and money so you can only want to do it to be a nuisance.
The best way to treat existing wood is to prevent it from being wet all the time. New wood can be pressure treated.
If the fence is thin enough to dry out a few times a year it won't rot very fast if at all. The posts will as they don't dry out, even pressure treated ones. Putting them in a concrete shell keeps them wet so they rot quicker than if you dig a small diameter hole and pack it with gravel. Sheds need a good overlap on the roof to keep them dry.
If you don't like the colour of the old wood just dye it, its quick and easy.
Dear Meow2 Water-based wood preservatives are mostly only for professional use (generally as emusions with the water used as a carrier fluid) and I do not know of any sold for Amateur use as a brush on product. I would (from firt principles) have thought a brush on external presevative based on water to be largely useless in my opinion (see my post above recommending OS-based) because you get next to no penetration of the active ingredient into the side grain.
I suspect that what you get sprouting are moulds not wood destroying fungi and that it is possible that careful reading of the contents of the alleged wood preservative has some sort of get-out clause (e.g. that it is only to be used in x, y, z environments [internal use?] for a,b,c purposes) and that it is not suitable for an exterior garden shed! Close examination of the claims and terms are required when choosing such products as the unscrupulous manufacturers do dress it up a lot to sell to the poor unsuspecting public who think one preservative is just as good as another.
Are you sure it was not a Water Repellant Preservative Stain (WRPS) as opposed to a pesticide preservative? I should be interested in the name of the product - just to warn others off! Chris
Creotreat is an oil-based timber stain containing tar acids (phenols) designed to fool the consumer into thinking it is a creosote substitute. To preserve a fence or timber you need a preservative NOT "treatment" which is basically decorative See the sucessful action by the Creosote Council in 2000 against the manufacturers which I quote below
" Council forces retreat on ad slogan Manufacturers of a wood treatment product have been forced to drop a statement from its packaging following a complaint from the Creosote Council. The council raised the issue with trading standards, unhappy that 'Creotreat', a petroleum-based product marketed by Cromar Building Products Ltd, carried the statement 'old traditional type treatment for outside use' on its packaging. It believed this slogan, coupled with the product name, misled the trade into thinking they had purchased a creosote-based product.
A spokesman for the Creosote Council said that creosote was regarded as 'the traditional wood preservative'.
"To refer to Creotreat, even as merely a tradition type treatment, was unhelpful. Many members of the public were not aware of the difference between a 'treatment, which is mainly cosmetic, and a 'preservative' which actually protects the wood. The protection, in creosote's case, is achieved by preventing the wood from drying out and splitting, inhibiting the growth of fungi and by destroying insects which would otherwise destroy the wood. Protection of this nature could not be achieved with this petroleum-based 'treatment'," concluded the spokesman. "
Pete is spot on target on both counts. My own advice is to buy the fence or timber pressure impregnated first and any supplementary application has to do less work and provides a greater factor of safety
Chris
Frank They don't need to die...The data used to ban creosote from general use in June 2003 were generated in Germany (they have an active Green party and were responsible for the removal of many of our active ingredients in the '80s and 90s'. All that is required is "potential" harm.... !
" This Directive is the latest measure brought in by the European Union for creosote/coal tar creosote. In 1994, controls on the specification of creosote that could be sold to the general public were implemented due to concerns over the carcinogenic potential of certain constituents of creosote. New information has led the EU to believe that creosote/coal tar creosote may have a greater potential to cause cancer than previously thought and as a precautionary measure the EU has decided to take action to prohibit the use of creosote/coal tar creosote wood preservatives by the general public. To bring this about, the DTI instructed the HSE to remove the Control of Pesticides Regulations approvals for these products to the following timetable:
Approval for advertisement and sale of amateur creosote/coal tar creosote products by the product Approval Holder and their agents expired on the 28th February 2003.
Approval for advertisement and sale of amateur creosote/coal tar creosote products by anyone other then the product Approval Holder or their agents expired on the 30th April 2003.
Approval for supply, storage and use of amateur creosote/coal tar creosote products expires on the 30th June 2003.
The "Elfin Safety" are alive and kicking and can be found not only in Ireland but on the continent! Chris
Well, I still have a source of the proper stuff (from a real ironmonger!).
I'm sure that's true, I'll have a word with god and ask if he can keep the rain off my fences :-)
It's 15 years old minimum.
See my OP, it's post and rail to keep horses in, made from half round about
6'' dia.
Post and rail, you bang em in with a post knocker - concrete and gravel?? I suspect that's for your back garden stuff.
Colour is of no consequence, preservation is important, I don't think anything is better than creosote for my purposes. It also stops the horses chewing the wood due to its nasty taste.
Julian.
Interesting thread. Anything as fine and penetrating as creosote has to be a health risk I would have thought. I doubt there's a mask capable of filtering the fumes, which linger in clothing etc. The fact remains that wood rots at the base, whatever it is, and whatever it's treated with. The gravel/cement mix should help in theory, though I haven't tried it yet.
You do protect the horses from the stuff until its safe don't you.
No. Once they've gotton their tongue on it the once they won't repeat the exercise - just like an electric fence.
Julian.
IIRC creosote can cause skin burns and other nasties.. you have to keep pets away from it.
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