Overcharged by a plumber ?

[Al]

Recently I had to have some emergency work done on my central heating boiler. At the time, the work HAD to be done, so I didn't question the cost. I was informed in advance as to the cost of the parts and requested a nbreakdown of the cost of each part on the invoice. However, it wasn't until after I had paid (by VISA) that I investigated the price of each individual part online.

I compared the online price with the manufacturers price and, where possible, the B&Q price. The average overall price for the four parts was UKP240 plus VAT. I was charged UKP657 plus VAT. Note that the labour charge was costed separately.

I have written to the company to request, politely, an explanation for the difference and today I received a reply clarifying this. Apparently, as the company offer a 'rapid response service, the high cost of offering this service" is reflected in their charges and their part mark up.

Funny, I thought UKP47.50 for each half hour labour charge would use that ecxcuse.

So, experts out there, do I have any justification in pursuing this further, or do I just put it down to experience and accept that I should have got more written quotes and gone with a recommended plumber rather than Yellow Pages.

[Bob Mannix]

No, yes, yes, yes.

You can charge anything you like if the purchaser is told the (correct) price in advance (as seems to be the case here). Had they said it would be "about £" and then charged £, you might have had a case.

[BitsNBobs]

For robbing bastards like that I'd also be querying if those parts actually needed replacing.

I'd report them to trading standards - do as much as you can to ruin them.

[ABC]

Name and shame them on

S

[mrcheerful]

If it was eemergency work, then you pay what they ask, if you think about having something done and ask for a quote in advance you can then argue about the price before the work is done. It doesn't sound as though the plumbers have done anything wrong, they may be expensive but they did the job, end of story.

Next time check up first. In any case, unless you have someone in dire need of being kept warm how can it be a true emergency?, turn the water off if necessary, get a fan heater out and fix it in the morning/next week.

mrcheerful

[The Natural Philosopher]

Quite. 50% of them will probably be used to fix the next emergency job they have.

I rememberyears ago me mums valve telly going on teh blink (rental) the bloke camne witha load of valves, and just replaced em one by one till the set worked.

The last valve he replaced went in a box marked 'duff'

I asked what he had replaced all teh others for 'its quicker mate, we just replace em all. Your mum's valves will go into the next set I visit'

Fault finding by a process of elminiation...

Speaking of which anyone want a power supply module for a Design jet printer? It doesn't work, but probably only needs a transistor replacing..lacking gear to test, I simply swapped it for a new one at 90 quid cost...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If they gave you the individual costs before they started work as requested, then you've accepted them by allowing the work to start.

You can always find a cheaper supplier if you look long and hard enough. But if you expect your repairer to also do this, would you be happy at him charging the time to do this at his standard hourly rate? And then the collection charges for obtaining these parts from wherever? Or the wait while they're delivered and that they might not be in stock?

Also, were they truly identical items? I know to my cost that cheap shed TRVs don't last anything like as long as decent make ones. So to make any true comparison, they must be exactly the same make and model.

[StealthUK]

Never call emergency plumbers in the Yellow Pages - it's full of crooks - especially the full and half page ads. They normally have a picture of an old man standing next to his van clutching his bag of tools. Oh, you think, they look like a professional outfit, they won't rob me!

I'd pursue it. Just because you've been given a breakdown of the parts beforehand doesn't mean you have to accept it. You pay high rates for labour in an emergency, there is no justification for charging almost 3 times for parts. If anything they should be able to get the parts cheaper than you as they will get a trade discount.

[Stephen Dawson]

But the point here is that he called them to work. They charged a price which he accepted at the time. After the event he has gone looking to justify the shock of the expense, and found out what he has been charged is far in excess of what he thought he should pay. But one thing has been forgotten, they fixed your problem didnt they?

[Al]

Bob Mannix ( [e-mail]) wrote:-

mrcheerful . ( [e-mail]) wrote:-

Dave Plowman (News) ( [e-mail]) wrote:-

What I was told: the fan had gone initially, I was told how much THAT would be (with a switch), replacing that it half-worked but wouldn't fire up properly. The PCB had failed (the replacement had a fuse on it which the original didn't). I was told how much the PCB would be. Replacing the PCB blew the fuse (twice). He traced in back to the pump and I was told how much THAT would be.

So it just sort of accummulated, not all in one hit.

It all sounded very plausible to the novice, but just leaves a nasty taste, especially after checking the price that 'I' could get the parts for.

StealthUK ( [e-mail]) wrote:-

This is true.

Thanks for the input guys. However, I need to be pretty confident of my position to pursue it further.

It would be helpful if the trading standards website gave the ability to post a question to them to SEE if there's just cause to take matters further.

Just a matter of being charged a lot for the parts might not be enough, but warning anyone else to be more careful (and making sure that the 1000 people that work where I do and have access to our company intranet are not recommended these guys might satisfy me enough.

[Cicero]

might

================ I fully agree with the principle of 'look before you leap' but in your case I think you *might* have a a genuine grievance. There was a case early this year in the Midlands where a gas fitter / plumber was adjudged to have charged a grossly excessive markup on supplied parts. Basically the judgement was that a person has a right to be charged a 'fair' price for any spare parts. I think the case was brought by Wolverhampton Trading Standards and it might be worth a call to them to get the details. Of course the matter hinges on what is a 'fair price' but since you appear to have been charged nearly three times the average price that might be considered an excessive price.

If Wolverhampton Trading Standards is not the correct office then you might get the details from the 'Express & Star' newspaper since they keep quite a good index of recent stories and it was certainly reported there.

Cic.

[Bob Mannix]

might

I wasn't suggesting that the plumber was other than morally reprehensible! I assumed you meant "pursue it further legally". As you were told the prices beforehand, I don't think you could pursue it legally - it isn't illegal to "overcharge" (whatever that means) - otherwise perfume manufacturers would be out of business.

If you meant pursue it further by naming and shaming, writing to complain etc., carry on! If they are members of a "professional" organisation, you could also complain to them. You could name them here, for example, as a warning to others.

If any of the charges were not told to you beforehand OR it turns out some of the work was unnecessary, that's a different story and you would have to do a cost/benefit analysis on whether it was worth doing anything or just better to chalk it up to experience.

[Michael Mcneil]

What one used to do was replace the ones that remained unlit when switched on.

Nowadays the array of panels is replaced one by one as they can not be seen to be disfunctional. I don't know much about the innards of TVs by the way.

I suppose the different cards are known to produce different effects on the screen rather in the manner of the different cards on would find in a computer?

[RichardS]

I think that this is where Cicero's post is interesting and might offer hope in this situation. There has been quite a move in recent years to try and clamp down on the worst excesses of overcharging, and it might just be possible that there is precedent or power for someone like Trading Standards to act.

If I were the OP, I'd pretty much put the ordeal down to experience & give some thought as to how I'd never get caught like this again - I'm sure he has. This brings back memories for me of 10 years ago when I felt similarly stung when foolishly letting an MOT testing station carry out remedial work to get a car through the test. Fortunately this was only something like £150, but that was back when I could ill afford to cough out that amount without it hurting.

However, I'd also be talking to either CAB or Trading Standards, to see whether there is precedent and something that can be done about it.

A reasonable mark-up for immediate availability of parts can be expected, but this markup (what, must be >170%??) would be difficult to justify, especially when there are many heating engineers who carry considerable stock of spares without anything like this markup.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Think you really need to state which parts were replaced, the make and model and the price charged for each.

[MBQ]

Don't be silly!

If you buy a pint of milk from the corner shop at 7pm on Sunday and then find on monday that it's half the price at Tesco do you immediately demand a refund?

We don't actually know that the parts prices charged by the plumber were any more than they would have been during normal hours. They may be expensive all the time.

MBQ

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Valve TVs had most of the heaters in series.

[Tony Bryer]

Back in my childhood (early 1960's) now and again all the valves would be removed from our radio and taken down to the local shop which had a Mullard valve tester: they'd plug in the valve and a punched bakelite card which had the settings for the valve in question. Amazingly Google produced a picture of same:

one was below spec and replaced, but it was probably the periodic unplugging and plugging that cleaned the contacts that really helped.

What became of Mullard: they were still making transistors in my teenage days IIRC?

[Owain]

"Al" wrote | Dave Plowman (News) wrote:- | > If they gave you the individual costs before they started work as | > requested, then you've accepted them by allowing the work to start. | What I was told: the fan had gone initially, I was told how much THAT | would be (with a switch), replacing that it half-worked but wouldn't | fire up properly. The PCB had failed (the replacement had a fuse on it | which the original didn't). I was told how much the PCB would be. | Replacing the PCB blew the fuse (twice). He traced in back to the pump | and I was told how much THAT would be. | So it just sort of accummulated, not all in one hit.

I don't think you have cause for complaint over the price of parts - you accepted the prices they gave - but if the fault was actually in the pump then I think you are entitled to expect the plumber to use reasonable care and skill to locate the fault and not charge you for replacement parts which possibly were unneccessary.

Do you still have the old parts - if there was nothing wrong with the fan or PCB you shouldn't be charged for replacing them.

| It would be helpful if the trading standards website gave the ability | to post a question to them to SEE if there's just cause to take | matters further.

If you find the Consumer Direct website there is a contact form on that. If you fill it in and you are in the areas covered by the service one of their advisers will email back to you.

Owain

[StealthUK]

Yes, he called them but that doesn't give them a licence to rob people. Would the average Joe have a clue as to what these parts cost? No, you rely on the firm to charge reasonable prices. It's not as if you're going to get the opportunity to find out parts prices for yourself in an emergency call-out beforehand either.

So, they fixed the problem - big deal. Most rogue traders ultimately fix the problem even if it was only a 2p fuse that needed changing. That doesn't make it okay to overcharge.