OT: Woodland for firewood (and as investment)

[Jimk]

TPOs? Public access? Insurance? Access? Land Management implications?

[Jimk]

Start with the remoaners?

[Jimk]

Hmmm I think you might need to re imagine the volumes of logs required here.....

[Tim+]

A bit of mature broadleaf woodland has come up for sale near me. Quite tempted ?just because?, I?ve always fancied a bit of woodland to enjoy and use to keep me in firewood.

Is there a general rule of thumb for acreage to supply firewood for heating? Also, how well does woodland work as a long term investment? Interest rates are so poor everywhere I can?t imagine it would do worse than any other form of savings. Not really into playing the stock market.

A lot of vague questions I know.

Tim

[AJH]

We work in yield classes, broadleaves are in the 4-8 M3/annum ball park up to their age of maximum mean annual increment and then it tails off. broadleaves are in the 350kg-400kg per m3 of dry solid wood per m3 ball park.

Of course it's normally only the branches and knotty wood that goes for firewood, sawmills will still have a demand for oak and beech in good quality, ash is a bit of a drug on the market atm.

Also, how well does woodland work as a long term investment?

Can be pretty good still at offsetting tax and prices look like they have done well will other investments excluding housing.

[Theo]

One thing to be wary of if you look on the 'woods for sale' websites is there are people who own a large wood flogging it off in little pieces, a bit like parking spaces/storage pods/student housing 'investment' schemes/scams. They give each piece a cute name, even if they're parts of an undivided larger tract of woodland.

I would check the price carefully, and also the access. No good if you own a tiny piece of Sherwood Forest if surrounded by other people's unmaintained woods and it's a long way from the nearest track.

Theo

[Theo]

I don't follow your units here.

You have 1 m2 of land, which can grow X m3 of green wood per year. That translates into Y kg of dry wood, with a calorific value of Z J/kg.

I think you're saying when X=1m3 of wet wood, Y=400kg of dry wood, but what's the rough productivity of land? And the calorific value of that dry wood?

Theo

[The Natural Philosopher]

a peasant family used to be able to live off about 10 acres.

If I were totally wood burning I'd guess at around 2-3 mature trees per year.

they take areound 20 years to grow, so you would need around 60 of them.

Sounds like an acre and a half = half a hectare

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)]

You might want to also check the planning issues on what you can and cannot do with it. Brian

[harry]

I have woodland for firewood. (Just for myself) Oak, beech, Hawthorn and ash etc. are desirable firewood in that they are dense and heavy. However they are only viable as a waste by-product. For repeatable (coppicing) you would use willow, ash or maybe poplar. Willow and poplar can be cut every five years or so. Ash every ten years. You need good access.. Forestry is not viable to pay someone else (and hard work to DIY) except on a vast scale. You need a lot of tools and/or machines plus work and drying space. It's dangerous work especially for the inexperienced.

Plus firewood is a fad that may well pass in a year or two. Or might even be banned on air pollution grounds.

[polygonum_on_google]

Indeed they might - but other measures short of complete ban seem more likely:

I like the idea of pollution-free fireworks. They both stink and can be very intrusive.

[mm0fmf]

But we're leaving the EU!

[Chris Bartram]

Looking at land for investment, check what its prior use may have been- I don't know where you live, but around here there's plenty of ex-industrial and ex-mining land that is worth very little because it is impossible or very expensive to build on in the future. That's not an issue for your firewood scenario, but for future use.

That certainly applies to one bit of woodland nearby, riddled with limestone caverns.

[Roger Hayter]

So they won't have to adopt all our anti-pollution laws; how does that help us?

[Dave Liquorice]

That depends on with what and how contaminated the land is. You might not be technically allowed to remove the timber from the site due to the contamination in the timber. Or if you do the ash is then considered "hazardous waste" and has to be dealt with accordingly.

Not likely with a bit of mature broadleaved woodland but worth a heads up.

[Dave Liquorice]

That would be about right with crops and grazing, assuming suitable climate and good soil. Would work here, climate is not suitable for crops.

I'd have said a one complete mature beech or oak. So lets assume 2.

20 years for a mature oak or beech? No way, make it nearer a hundred. Even with fast growing softwoods you're looking at 40 years to get a decent sized tree, not to mention that softwood isn't good firewood.

So you'll need at least 200 trees to sustainably harvest 2 per year. Of trees planted to replace those harvested not all will reach maturity, say 50% mortality. 300 trees. A square with 18 trees/side is 324 trees. Spaced at ten yards gives 180 * 180 = 32400 sq yds = about 7 acres or just under 3 hectares.

[Tim Streater]

This country (incl. Scotland) is about 64M acres. So would need to get the population well below 10 million. Any suggestions?

[Ray]

Not when they arent all peasants.

[Tim Lamb]

In message [e-mail]>, Ray [e-mail] writes

Good plan. Get rid of the wealthy parasites and support us peasants?

[Ray]

Makes more sense to recognise that none of us are peasants anymore and how many of those the country can support has no relevance anymore.