OT Wind power cheapest form of energy.

[harryagain]

[Bill Wright]

The European Wind Energy Association (EWEA). So that won't be biased then. Ha!

Bill

[Nightjar]

A report by a consultancy that specialises in promoting renewable energy says that it is cheapest. What a surprise. However, it is noteworthy that, even after factoring in as many intangibles as possible, the report still can't make it cheaper than nuclear power.

[Andy Cap]

It's probably the cheapest in the same way modern CH boilers are the cheapest, if you ignore maintenance, faults and poor life.

Andy C

[Bill Wright]

Ditto roof mounted PV cells. The shit will be hitting the fan big style in a few years when all these cowboy installs start to fail. Leaking roofs, waterlogged connections, dodgy inverters, oh dear me.

As an aerial installer I've looked at quite a few of these jobs close up, and by gum some of them are rough.

Bill

[Dave Liquorice]

The books obviously don't balance:

ns-up-100-7944689

[Brian Gaff]

But its no bloody good it being cheaper if it is not windy when you want the bloody power is it! Brian

[bert]

What they "forget" to factor in is the cost of the conventional plant they have to have sitting idle on standby for when the wind isn't blowing. Of course if that standby plant is nuclear then you may as well run it 24/7 and forget the wind turbines.

[Dave Liquorice]

All grid suppliers should be made to completely dispatchable to their stated capacity for at least a given length of time. The costs of this would be bourne by the generators.

There would have to be some time elements involved, no point in asking Drax for 4 GW in two hours, when the fires are out... but for wind they could have liquid air plant that would run up in minutes. They produce the liquid air with the energy they produce when the grid doesn't want it or, as they are now dispatchable, by choosing when to sell to the grid. Being a quick reacting source they could sell at best prices to the grid.

Slight snag is that nukes like to run flat out 24/7 for a year or three, not be partially shut down then wound back up and a daily cycle. To cope with varying demand there has to be dispatchable sources to the grid.

[Nightjar]

If liquid air storage works for wind turbines, why not for nuclear power and do without the wind turbines?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You make it sound like all non condensing boilers never gave problems and had a long life. This is not so. Low end boilers have always been a source of problems.

[John Williamson]

There's no subsidy for it without the turbines?

[Bod]

Hmm! I installed what you would call a low end boiler, we sold the house 28 years after the install and that boiler (Ideal WRS40) was still working 100%. All that ever went wrong in that period was about 6 thermocouples which cost about a fiver each and 10 minutes to change also 2 pump changes. I installed a Combi in this house 10 years ago and don't expect it to last more than 15 years or so. Combis are always breaking down and are generally MUCH more expensive to fix.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

So it wasn't ultra reliable. Just an economical and easy fix? So what makes you think there aren't modern condensing boilers which are the same?

Well, why fit a combi? You're not comparing like with like.

Combis are much cheaper/easier to install. Like I said, you get what you pay for.

[charles]

A thermocouple is a sacrificial part. Pumps are nothing to do with the boiler. Rather like faulty illumination of needles does not say how relialble your car's engine is.

It isn't so much "combi" as "condensing" that seems to make them unreliable.

[news]

For the majority of the population (who are not DIY minded and have to get a man in) 6 thermocouples in 28 years is a call out fee every 4.5 years or so - not my idea of reliable even for a modern boiler.

[Bod]

Not cheaper when you change from using a back boiler and changing it to a combi like I did. Lots of pipe alterations/ HW cyl removal/ cold tank and jockey tank removal etc.

[Bod]

I fitted a combi because the old CH system took up too much room (HW cyl/ Cold tank / expansion tank etc, plus my wife liked the idea of constant HW from a combi. I deliberately chose a non condensing combi.

[www.GymRatZ.co.uk]

I have a Valiant "economax" (non condensing) or something combi that is around 13 or 14 years old in the shop, runs 12 to 18 hours a day 5 days a week through the whole season Still on the same pump and only had 1 diverter valve although it's needed a new one for about 8 years but we have no need for hot water.

That's vastly superior to the condensing one at home with regards to breaking down..

[charles]

Assuming that the non-DIYers have an annual service to their boiler, the thermocouple could be replaced at the same time. Thermocouples aren't part of "modern" boilers anyhow. They have much more sophisticated bits