OT: New National Grid Exec Director looks to Smart Grid to balance renewables output

http://tinyurl.com/hzxv63x
Is this medium-term thinking by Nicola Shaw realistic? I don't see it myself. Might smooth out a few peaks and troughs through the day, but isn't going to compensate for several days of no wind in mid-January.
--

Chris

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On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 10:07:20 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

You're baying at the moon. It's far more efficient to dupe the consumer into buying into demand side management than it is to build more capacity.
By "efficient" I mean "makes more money for snouts in troughs".
Thanks to our poorly -if at all - educated masses, few people - and certainly no-one you'd listen to - realise that control of access to energy is ultimately control of *everything*.
With a bit of luck, artificial energy rationing will hasten some really nasty pandemic, and wipe out 50% of the population. And given the way things are going, I'm not really fussed which half I end up in.
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Chris Hogg wrote:

Given how long it's taken them to not get very far into a smart meter roll-out, I'd say the chickens will be home to roost sooner than they can tackle another "smart" project.
Get those coal-fired stations ready to start burning again once the LCPD no longer applies ...
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On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:01:23 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

There's a certain delicious irony that - like water meters - their own greed has fucked them up the arse.
If they had bit the bullet, and just rolled out smart meters at their own expense, we'd be at 90% by now.
The problem is they could never sell that to their shareholders.
The whole thing is actually a testament to how the word "investment" is a dirty word in UK business practices. Well, investing ones own money that is. we are very good at investing other peoples money.
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Smart meters won't help at all, we need smart electricity consuming devices. That's what the new director has been talking about.
--
Chris Green
·

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But they won't be coming any time soon, and they won't stop the national battery going flat after a day or two of no wind in winter.
Then what? Woollies, candles and a three-day week again, and no investment into any UK industry because the electricity is so unreliable?
--

Chris

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Absolutely, I wasn't saying that 'smart devices' are a possible solution to the current problem. I was just pointing out that smart meters aren't a solution to the problem at all and that the new minister seemed to be talking about 'smart devices'.
--
Chris Green
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On Wednesday, 31 August 2016 14:03:05 UTC+1, Chris Green wrote:

The purpose of the smart meter is to enable you to be charged more when the re is a dearth of electricity. When it's windy/sunny you might get electricity for free.
The purpose of "smart appliances" is to "know" when electricity is cheap. And to act in accordance with preplanned instructions. Which will be down to the ownwer.
Eg "When electricity costs more then (say) £0.08/unit, shut down."
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:
g
.
n there is a dearth of electricity.

ap.

Oh dear. Supply and demand. If you can't make enough electricity, put the price up, people will use less. It's so simple a mosquito could understand it.
-- The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of the oncoming train.
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On Thursday, 1 September 2016 00:05:12 UTC+1, James Wilkinson wrote:
ote:

there is a dearth of electricity.

p.

he price up, people will use less. It's so simple a mosquito could underst and it.
Exactly so. Smart people will be able to save a fortune.
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ote:

ming

ter.

rt

when there is a dearth of electricity.

cheap.

"

ut the price up, people will use less. It's so simple a mosquito could understand it.

I can't think of much electricity usage in my home which can be used at any time. It needs to be used when I want it. Unless I bought a huge bank of batteries.
-- Before marriage, a man yearns for the woman he loves. After marriage, the 'Y' becomes silent.
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There is plenty that can be deferred for a few minutes to avoid peaks in the grid demand.

Not necessarily with quite a bit of stuff.

Don't need that either.
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On Friday, 2 September 2016 01:27:01 UTC+1, James Wilkinson wrote:
ote:

wrote:

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ing

er.

t
hen there is a dearth of electricity.

heap.

n."

t the price up, people will use less. It's so simple a mosquito could unde rstand it.

ny time. It needs to be used when I want it. Unless I bought a huge bank of batteries.

'Y' becomes silent.
You're clearly not much of a thinker.
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Build nukes and we CAN supply enough energy.

Not compared to what they pay now. They will only "save" compared to those who will pay the higher price.
--
bert

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On 31/08/2016 17:06, harry wrote:

The purpose of a smart meter is so that it can detect the electric car being charged and the missing notional petroleum revenue duty will just be added to your electricity bill.
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Chris Green wrote:

There's very little of my load that I'd want time-shifted to reduce peaks ...
washer/dryer could usually delay start for a few hours, but wouldn't want it to decide to stop once a load was underway, and would want a button to say "start now regardless"
fridge/freezer could cope with intermittent power, provided it was allowed a reasonable duty cycle.
Beyond that, all other devices I want to be on, or able to be on 24x7; anything less would be the grid telling me I can't eat, work or relax when I want to.
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On 31/08/16 12:40, Andy Burns wrote:

And I would not want a dryer to run when I'm not there (they seem to keep catching fire according to the papers and the Fire Brigade advice is never run a tumble dryer unattended). So bit of a non starter.

And they use sod all power anyway.

Unless someone has electric heating, which is probably already storage based, they are on a hiding to nothing with this daft idea.
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Tim Watts wrote:

Certain makes/models maybe, I've gone 30+ years without any hint of a problem.

I suspect mine accounts for between 1/4 and 1/3 of my energy

or an electric car
And they already have load shedding agreements in place with big industrial users, so may not be much extra they can do in that direction.
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I was involved in building microprocessor controlled load shedding systems back in the 1970s, it was called 'maximum demand control' back then. We sold systems to lots of big electricity consumers such as Pilkingtons glass, British Rail (electric arc furnaces) and lots of others.
It wasn't quite 'real time' as the electricity bills were based on the maximum demand in any one half-hour period. I.e. big industrial consumers were charged for the units they consumed and an amount which depended on the largest number of kwh used in any one of the half hour periods (over a month, I *think*, it was a long time ago). If our system predicted a large consumption in the current half-hour period it would do a bit of load-shedding (e.g. turn off a few coils in the Pilkington annealing ovens).
--
Chris Green
·

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On 31/08/16 14:10, Chris Green wrote:

I was just thinking - you don't need a very smart device to shed load anyway. Just one that looks for the frequency going below a certain limit. Only problem is how to give the customer a financial incentive to use a load of these (if in the form of 13A plug adaptors).
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