OT looking for basic accounts software as going self-employed

[Murmansk]

I'm planning to become self-employed as a handyman and looking for some basic/cheap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax return.

Any recommendations?

[Andy Burns]

I switched from running a company using Sage Line50 for the last 20 years, to being self employed a year ago, and would strongly recommend you look at FreeAgent, about £200/year, 30 day free trial available.

I haven't used it to submit a tax return yet, but I've looked at how it uses the data you've entered through the year to collect the information it needs to do it, and it looks good enough that I don't think I'll use an accountant to file my sole trader self assessment forms.

It's web based, really makes everything simple, you can create/send invoices, record mileage and expenses from the phone app, imports statements that you export from your bank (it can hook direct to you r bank, but I wouldn't trust the service it uses to have my banking credentials).

It's by produced by accountants for but people they recognise are not very interested in accounting, just getting stuff done.

I have a referral code, if you happen to sign up, we both get some discount

[Bill Wright]

ap/free software I can use to keep records and submit my tax return.

Do you really need a paid-for accounts package? Your accounts will be very simple and straightforward. Why not use Excel and see how you get on?

Bill

[Graeme]

In message , Murmansk writes

I have been self employed for 15 years, and found spreadsheets perfectly OK to keep my accounts, although do employ an accountant to give my figures a quick once over, then transfer the totals to my tax return, which he does online.

Strongly suggest you keep every scrap of paper, and keep everything labelled and filed. What is familiar today will cause headaches if needed 5 or 6 years later. I don't use anything sophisticated - just plastic and manilla envelopes, but all are carefully labelled and filed, 'just in case'.

[spuorgelgoog]

Because using an accounts package sort-of forces you to keep accounts in a format that should add up correctly and be acceptable to the Revenue.

Putting stuff in Excel isn't much use if Excel isn't set up correctly - and if you don't know anything about accounts you probably don't know how to set it up correctly. If Excel isn't set up correctly you might as well be using Paint.

Also using accounts software automates the quotation - invoice - statement - reminder - payment - reconciliation process especially if it integrates with bank and card-machine providers.

Owain

[Bill Wright]

and be acceptable to the Revenue.

about accounts you probably don't know how to set it up correctly. If Excel isn't set up correctly you might as well be using Paint.

reconciliation process especially if it integrates with bank and card-machine providers.

Damn! I've been doing it wrong all these years!

Bill

[Andy Burns]

Nobody is saying what is a right or wrong method, just what they see as workable methods.

My granddad used to fill a shoebox with bit of paper and go and dump it on his accountant's desk, my first year in business I did everything in a multi-column accounting book which does let you get the hang of what's going on, I'm sure you can use a spreadsheet.

But for the fees involved, an accounts package does make it a piece of piss, and lets you see the effect on the quarter's VAT or year's PAYE/NI of each transaction as and when you enter it, rather than calculating it all at the end. Yes you could do that in a spreadsheet, but you need to understand what data the spreadsheet needs to contain, in order to feed the formulae ...

[Bill Wright]

Very good advice. Keep everything, and be meticulous in your filing, both paper and computer.

In addition to this, it's a good idea to make an electronic record of all paperwork, as well as keeping the paper version. Obviously this only applies to incoming documents, since all outgoing ones will be computer generated anyway. Since this is only to be used in case of emergency the effortless way to do it is to simply photograph each document and file them all by weekly date. In other words just dump your camera contents onto the computer every Friday night.

It's also vital to back up all computer files. Don't trust one back-up; have several. For instance back up to a removable drive that you keep somewhere well away from the desk machine, and/or to a laptop or USB stick ditto. Also back up to Dropbox.

As regards a filing system on the computer you will obviously do one to suit yourself, but as an example mine has the following folders for each trading year, each with sub-folders:

Accounts (sub-folders for inputs and outputs) Communications, customer (sub-folders for each major customer, plus 'others') Communications, supplier, (sub-folders for each major supplier, plus 'others') Communications other Labels Leaflets etc (end user) Leaflets etc (landlords) System plans System photographs Technical information Vehicles Video and audio files Warranty documents on purchases

Good luck! Don't worry about making a lot of money in the first year. Concentrate on building up your customer base.

Bill

[PeterC]

Anything of use here?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Most people use a spreadsheet.

Gnucash seems OK for basic stuff.

Runs on all platforms.

Setting up accounting for the first time can be daunting: I suggest employing an accountant to help.

[Tim Lamb]

Having looked at various accounts packages and attended a course based on Sage? (I forget the number) I am still using Guildhall accounts books.

Modestly priced packages do not offer a full service and try to lure you to buying the full system.

For year end tax return/accountants you need to categorise income and expenditure. For a micro business this may not be critical but the Inland Revenue expect to be able to separate things like new build from repairs and renewals as the tax position is different.

If I had been taught excel when my brain was receptive .......

[Capitol]

Me too!

[Brian Gaff]

I'd suggest getting an accountant, from my experience they can save you a lot more than they cost. Brian

[newshound]

I agree up to a point, but assuming cash basis accounting and provided you know something about spreadsheets it can be done. And a handyman isn't going to be processing lots of paperwork (unlike say an eBay retailer), and probably not using a card machine.

[Andrew Gabriel]

I do it all online, using

(it's not free, but it's not expensive either).

I go via an accountant, but you can simply go directly yourself if you know enough of the accountancy rules for running a business. The accountant sets it all up for me properly and then it does everything automatically and instantly when I enter details, including generating all the filled in forms for HMRC such as VAT, Self Assessment, etc. It can submit them directly too. It produces my invoices and records my stock (although that's not a significant issue for me). It can also record different projects separately. You can have it automatically update from your bank - I don't like the idea, although lots of people do it. It can tell you what your profit/loss is at any instant. There's a mobile app although I haven't tried that - I use it via standard web interface.

One thing I'm not sure how well it will handle lots of customers; I have around a handful of customers. Also, probably not suitable for handling a large number of stock lines.

Also, check out insurances, your liabilities as a self-employed person (I think it everything you have including your house). This is a useful conversation to have with an accountant.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I used Prophet when still working. it was originally for Acorn, but ported to the PC too.

Very flexible and can issue invoices too - and do stock control.

Not sure if it's still on the go.

[Handsome Jack]

Murmansk posted

From April 2018, HMRC will force all self-employed people to use record-keeping software of its own choosing. Simple versions of this software will be provided free of charge (so it says), though nothing has been made available yet.

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If I were you I'd just record my income and outgoings on a couple of spreadsheets for this current year, and then wait and see what the great minds of HMRC wheel out for 2018/19. In fact, that's exactly what I *am* doing myself.

[Robin]

I'd have thought a handyman would need a vehicle so, assuming it's not going to be *solely* for business, a bit more than that might be advisable - eg business mileage at a minimum (so can use the flat rate allowances).

If the OP is wholly new to this then HMRC give an overview of expenses at

and to working out profits at

But I'd not like to set up spreadsheets from scratch on the basis of that or of textbooks if I'd never met the subject before. IMHO you can't beat sitting with Nellie when getting started.

And if the OP's going to buy a van for the work I'd recommend getting advice on how to deal with that for tax purposes as there are more options than ever with the cash basis and AIA on top of simplified expenses. All too difficult for me these days.

[Graeme]

In message , Robin writes

We're getting further away from the original question now but, if the OP is becoming self employed for the first time, it is important to know just what can be deducted for tax purposes. Working from home? Dedicate a part of the home as office, and claim, say, ten percent of all household bills. Going out in the car? Buy something for the business, and claim car running expenses, including parking. Just keep all receipts. Forever.

Using a home PC for business records and accounts? Claim for it - and the cost of modems, routers, ISP, cables, printers, inks, paper etc. Claim for the cost of any new desk, filing cabinet, files etc.

Married? Employ the wife if she is not working elsewhere. Make sure she does something, though. Pop to suppliers, write cheques, file invoices, type quotes or whatever. Claim for her car too, if she uses it for business.

Claim for overalls, boots, gloves, masks, tools etc.

As regards the accounts, I found it easiest to start with a blank profit and loss account, with all the required fields blank, then work backwards from that, so I knew where I needed to end up, with the figures.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If doing your own accounts, you may find that the IR spends more time looking at claims for allowances than if they come from a qualified accountant. And may well question many of them. Especially for things which aren't solely for business use - like a car or computer.