OT: Kellingley pit shuts and causes leftist dilemma

[Martin]

We have stopped watching several BBC TV series where light levels are inadequate and back ground music/noises drown out dialogue

[Martin]

I was wrong. The VAT problem within the EU has been fixed. You pay the VAT to the country of purchase or to the country where the item is delivered, where the delivery country is not the same as the purchase country. For most people this is the same country. The corporate tax problem is also being fixed by the EU. Most of the fiddles rely on companies paying far less than the going rate for corporation tax in the country, where in fact the companies only have an office, with minimum staff to manage the fiddle.

[Tim Watts]

No it wasn't and it wasn't meant to be in that paragraph. It was meant to show that onshoring was not so uneconomic that no one could afford to do it, countering that specific point.

Considering all the companies "reshoring" that I gave a link too, the trend is clearly to bring it back home, so I see no reason RBS should ever off shore functions.

Not a *massive* amount extra, clearly - otherwise you would not have any companies with on shore services. If that was a be all and end all factor, everyone would have offshored and no one would be reshoring.

One of the pages I read actually suggested that the hidden costs with offshoring (extra management, contracts, customer dissatisfaction) made off shoring rather less the bargain everyone thought it was.

Why? You claim so, but evidence?

[Mike Lander]

Still doesn't explain the Irish.

[critcher]

are you sure this is the W.W. I know and admire, oh I see it's 3.32 am.

[Mike Lander]

That's a different problem.

Or start the coal fired power stations again using imported coal.

[Mike Lander]

The light levels in some of the night scenes in The Fall weren't great, but the music was fine.

Not a patch on Fargo tho.

Spooks was pretty decent too.

[Mike Lander]

Yes

No

And there is no way to fix that.

[Mike Lander]

I never said it was so uneconomic that no one could afford to do that.

That isn't happening much with call centres .

the

Not with call centres.

so I see no reason RBS should

The voters won't buy it.

No country that matters has done that.

[Tim Watts]

Someone implied or said it...

No?

EE, Santander UK, United Utilities and BT have shifted call-centre work from India to the UK.

Those are not small companies...

[Tim Streater]

Well you can certainly argue it. Any assertion of it is merely an opinion.

[Mike Lander]

No one did.

I said much for a reason.

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[Tim Streater]

They will be soon, though, if they carry on that way. I for one try and avoid any outfit that has a call centre overseas. I want someone on the phone who was born and brought up here. That way I won't have a problem understanding their accent, or worry about whether they have interpreted some idiom I may use in the opposite way that I meant it.

[Bill Wright]

He didn't qualify 'people'.

Bill

[Bill Wright]

I switch off as soon as 'the agenda' rears its head.

Bill

[michael adams]

But the same certainly couldn't be said of anyone claiming that people who used to make a living off horses like blacksmiths, horse-whip makers, etc) were similarly "victims" of globalisation.

The bit you snipped, it goes without saying.

That's not a valid opinion by any stetch of the imagination, but either ahistorical gibberish given that globalisation is very much a 20th century concept, unlike say imperialism or the product of a deranged mind.

michael adams

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[michael adams]

You mean they don't have "compensation", "hoods", "trunks" and "fenders" over there either ?

Personally speaking, I never have trouble understanding any of the people in Bangalore, and I find them very polite and helpful. BT tried to sting me for a call referral - I dialled 100 to report a problem and the UK call centre transferred me to a pay-number without me knowing thus racking up a charge that showed on the next bill. The first call which went to to a UK Call Centre drew a blank. The second call went to Bangalore and upon my explaining the problem they cancelled the charge on their screen and I was advised to simply to deduct it from the bill and pay the remainder. The next bill confirmed this had been done. All done in very correct clipped English without a trace of Geordie or Glasgow to be heard. Being a deeply sad person I always ask then when they're knocking off and what the weather's like. Like the checkout assisant with their "can I help" I coudln't give a toss but it doesn't cost anything.

Same with Barclaycard. The only times I've ben fobbed off on the phone is car insurance no-claims lies - UK Midlands and TFL in Dundee of all places.

Without having seen any of the TV programes about them, the impression is that working in a Call Centre with the constant abuse - people mainly call when something is wrong, isn't a job one would want to wish on anyone. At least in Indian Call Centres they probably have the consolation that they're earning a lot more than they otherwise could do, despite the abuse. Which is not being unduly patronsing IMO, just realistic.

Whether a UK based person might not necessarily feel the same about it if they were forced into such a job.

To put it bluntly call centre workers are there to take the shit and abuse which result from the abysmal standards of service resulting from cutting costs to the bone in pursuit of profit. None of which they're responsible for. While those who are, are far removed from the scene and doubtless awarding themselves fat bonuses.

michael adams

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[Tim Watts]

They are RESHORING - that is bringing the call centres back to the UK.

Which, according to some posters is so uneconomic as to be impossible...

[michael adams]

Oh yes he did. He was referring specifically to people who have an opinion on venture capitalism.

Whereas in your example -

" No but they do, you know. I heard a woman (doctor's waiting room) explaining to her child that the shops bought things for a lower price than they sold them. She said it in tones that suggested such a thing was immoral."

There's no indication whatsoever the woman in question would ever have the faintest idea what venture capital was; in the whole of her life. Unless this doctor's waiting room happened to be in Silicon Valley, California, at least. Which I somehow doubt; as otherwise I'm sure you would have mentioned it.

Other than that, it was just a semi articulate unfocussed anti-business rant.

Not that Timmy is incapable of the odd semi-articulate rant himself, but not on this ocassion.

michael adams

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[michael adams]

Amazon have very rarely posted a profit since their IPO and have never paid a dividend. The share price goes up either through the expectation of a bigger fool buying the shares or Amazon eventually going into profit. Their debt equity ratio confirms this. Tesco's debt equity ratio is around 60% - they borrow to pay for expansion and pay a dividend out of profits. Amazon's debt equity ratio is 6% ten times smaller as they finance all their expansion, warehouses and other infrastructure out of earnings. Which when after salaries etc are paid leave nothing . Basically if they were making a profit then shareholders would demanding dividends by now.

michael adams

An Amazon customer with a clear conscience. As most likely all warehouses are crap places to work in any case, not just Amazon.

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