OT(ish) - small wind turbine longevity

[Chris Hogg]

No, I hadn't given subsidies a thought.

Do you have a link either to general info on farming subsidies for wind generators, or else to the specific example you quote?

[Roger Hayter]

It is impossible to link to it but if you are *really* interested go to:

and go to the search page. Look for reference number P/2014/1163 or address Byrhedyn. Go to this application then on to the link "View Submitted Plans and Associated Documents". Then go to the third page of submitted documents and open 3210031 (Design and access statement) and there you will find a very poor viewer and a link to download the document. Within this 60 page document (which must have cost the applicant a lot) you will find the financial rationale. I don't vouch for its accuracy. But it sounds pretty good if you happen to own a hill.

[Chris Hogg]

Hmm...couldn't find anything about subsidies other than reference to FIT payments (presumably similar to those that Harry gets, pro rata for the amount of electricity generated), an estimate of the savings in heating oil and CO2 emission that would arise from using the electricity generated (savings which could also be made by someone with e.g. solar roof panels), and that the turbine would pay for itself in 7-9 years from those payments and savings. Perhaps I missed it; it wasn't the sort of document designed to hold your interest!

I couldn't find mention of the generator capacity, which surprised me, only it's physical size. Perhaps size is all that planners worry about, in terms of visual impact. I did see that the applicants were expecting 400000kWh of electricity per annum, which amounts to an average power of 45.7kW, or about 200kW capacity, assuming a capacity factor of 25%.

I also see planning permission was refused. So there is some sense in the Powys planning department and they're not totally subservient to the demands for green energy.

[Roger Hayter]

What's in a name, aren't FIT payments a generous subsidy?

I suspect 25% is way optimistic. It was in the (prevailing) lee of quite a low hill.

Virtually every hilltop in Powys is covered with windmills, and you can see them from almost everywhere. The valley (and walking route) the turbine in question was to overshadow was one of very few that you can't see any nearby ones from. We have none of the protection the national parks have, despite having some of the most unspoilt upland countryside. The Powys worms are beginning to turn, especially since they now want to build a huge 400kV transmission line across rural Montgomeryshire, rather than simply feather the turbines and hand over the paycheques, which seems more sensible to me.

[harry]

They are clearly more interested in selling wind turbines than pointing out the disadvantages of a site.

I have seen solar panels in stupid sites too. I can see one from my house.

[harry]

This was one I was thinking of. An obviously stupid place.

[Martin Brown]

I reckon on a well maintained wind farm about 10% are down at any one time and up to 30% on the ones that are not well maintained. I pass three very regularly and it is very unusual for all of them to be going!

By comparison on the Nissan site at Sunderland most times all 9/10 are going (although they did have one on fire once closing the A19).

[Roger Hayter]

The Welsh government paid for 40,000 GBP for one at a new Aberystwyth office a few years ago. They took it down after a couple of years when it had produced a total of about a hundred units since commissioning. At least they had discovered a very well wind-shielded spot on their site.

[Peter Parry]

Small turbines seem to have a life expectancy one month longer than that of the company that manufactured them. (which in turn is often no more than 12 months).

[The Natural Philosopher]

ITYM one month more than the company that sold them to you - with the same proviso.

is a hilarious read.

Unless you are of the green persuasion of course.

[Chris Hogg]

But very appropriate!

[Peter Parry]

"25 October 2011 UK's small wind turbine manufacturer, Proven Energy Ltd, has been sold to Kingspan Renewables Ltd. Proven Energy folded last month following the identification of a defect in its flagship P35-2 small wind turbine and the inability to obtain necessary additional funding."