OT: energy infrastructure

[Tim Streater]

That too.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Thats why I am writing my own CH controller. To be able to keep zones from getting icy, but not warm enough to be comfortable, all from a web browser.

[SteveW]

£250 bn is only two and a half times the cost of a single railway line.

No. Nuclear would be my preference.

Yes - and energy dense, so we wouldn't need turbines all over the countryside.

Definitely. I want to know that when I want power, it is there and that prices are not fluctuating massively due to very variable supply.

[SteveW]

Nuclear becomes a lot cheaper when you choose three design (for diversity), get them through regulatory approval and then built multiples of the same design.

[SteveW]

We heat multiple rooms because our homes are used for multiple purposes. Our system allows each room to be heated independently and, at the moment, we heat the hall (to a low temperature) to prevent large temperature differences as we move around and prevent damp and mould; the living room, as we spend our time there; the kitchen, because we spend a lot of time there; another room as the kids have their computers and desks there; the bedrooms as required and the bathroom for comfort at the times when we are likely to feel the cold the most and to fight damp and mould.

Once the kids have grown up and left, one of the bedrooms will be heated more, as it will become a hobby room, that we may walk into and sit down at any time, without planning ahead.

Where should we leave unheated out of those?

As for wearing more clothes. I can't stand that - as soon as I do something more active, I get too hot and start itching horribly.

We already have double glazing and cavity wall insulation. To improve efficiency, we'd have to replace (at great cost and with expensive damage to the decoration), all the windows with better, more modern versions.

Increasing the wall insulation would require external insulation (requiring repositioning of drains, extending of the roof, lookin gout of place against the rest of the brick houses and narrowing the already narrow driveway, preventing access to the garage) or internal insulation (requiring every room to be redecorated, the bathroom to be replumbed and retiled as everything was moved, the kitchen to be re-done and the stairs to be narrowed, when with two 90° bends, it is already almost impossible to get a bed up or down it.

When money is tight, payback time is immaterial - just doing it in the first place is unaffordable for many.

[Animal]

the reason insulation is expensive is the government. If they let us diy it as we chose there would be many houses insulated with rendered polystyrene, insulation offcuts, papercrete, woodcrete, scrap insulation & so on. As usual the stated objectives don't match the actions.

[Pancho]

I don't believe that, historically heating bills have been quite low, maybe £1000 a year. Even if you saved everything, no heating, that would mean a maximum insulation spending of £10,000.

[Pancho]

I had always been a sit around in pants and vest type. Last year, I got some snuggle onesies. Last winter I sat around in a pants vest and onesie. It was really quite a revelation. Comfortable, light, and warm. Having air circulate from my chest to my legs, without a draft in the middle, or constriction, was very comfortable. The temperature I was comfortable at went down 4 or 5 degrees C.

When it got colder, I bought some USB heated vests. This also worked, quite well, and the technology can be improved. Very good for working at a desk. A heated desk mat meant my hands stayed warm. I wouldn't bet against heated clothes becoming a solution. In London, it rarely gets that cold.

My main problem was I felt embarrassed going outside the house in the onesie, which looks like pyjamas. I've been looking for something similar that would be respectable enough to go to the shops in.

Payback is important, finance, loans, can be used to shift payments in to the future where they are offset by savings. The real risk is energy might become cheap and the future savings disappear.

[Spike]

That latter comment is true enough; supporters of ‘green energy’ have been telling us for decades how cheap ‘renewables’ are. One day, it might actually come true as far as the domestic consumer is concerned, but so much money is being made on the generation side that that will probably be a pious hope.

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[Fredxx]

Why not use an external frost-stat and a pipe-stat on the return like everyone else?

I presume this is going to be on a Linux PC rather than bare metal microcontroller?. What language are you going to write this in?

[RJH]

I'll stand corrected, but I gather from various talks I've been to that the cost of fitting insulation at the time of design/construction doesn't add that much to the overall cost. Retrofit is where the costs can really start to mount.

[RJH]

I'm not sure. Perhaps you could use the house more communally. The point is that people sholdn't be told - they should work it out for themselves or it'll never work.

Then of course there's the issue of when kids leave home, and rooms stand empty. Move house?!

Several layers?

I didn't find internal insulation too difficult ina soild wall Victorian house

- but then there's just me most of the time. The disriuption for families can make it very tricky without considerable financial support.

Some homes it'll be close on impossible to get to even 'heat pump' standard.

Agreed. I just think it needs to be done. I pay the government to do the planning and work out how.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Today, you cant construct without the insulation. It *is* quite expensive as immense quantities of kingpsan are required *everyweere* and it all has to be sealed. And it doesn't install itself. Id say £10,000 on a new build might be in the ballpark for a detached family home.

[Animal]

It can be. £100 for a PV panel, feed to a low voltage immersion heater & you can get over 1000% payback over its life.

[alan_m]

The thickness and type of some insulation required for a new build or new extension etc. changed last year.